Dealing with Supernatural Speed/Strength

[CurkyHangles]

I apologize if this question has been asked, I combed through posts using the search function and didn't come up with anything.  Here goes:

I am relatively new to DFRPG but I have a ton of experience in other tabletops (3.5, Pathfinder, WoD, Star Wars, CoC).  I am running a story with some new players, and I have run into an interesting problem that I am not sure how to handle.  There is a character with supernatural speed/strength (has a totem) that has broken a couple combat scenes I have thrown at the PCs.  Story time:

The party has recovered an item that is sought after by a shadow person who is manipulating things behind the scenes.  The PCs have said item in the back of an m35 transport truck.  While driving with the item, the party is ambushed by 3 highly trained mercenaries and a sorcerer for hire.  The baddies drive up on the truck and start opening fire with a hail of bullets from small arms, and a 30 cal machine gun.  The sorcerer is planning on throwing evocations when the truck is disabled due to gunfire.  Enter gamebreaker PC.  The faster than perception PC jumps out of the truck and bulldozes the enemy jeep with a 10 shift hit effectively crushing my entire encounter plan with little effort.  I did make him dodge random gunfire, but it still made little difference.  So my question is, how do you deal with a character like this without constantly throwing in enemies/situations tailored to stack the deck against said character?

[Kennifus Prime]

In my opinion, the best part about DFRPG is also what makes it really hard to GM sometimes: the freedom. The PC's, as long as game mechanics are followed, can really do anything. It's impossible to plan for everything they could do. A Wizard could essentially do the same thing as this other PC by casting ice under the car or Hexing the hell out of it. There are other ways other PC templates could interfere with your plans as well. What I've learned to try and do is think of the goal of the scene, and then make sure that goal occurs. It doesn't matter how, or [usually] even if it's in the same exact scene. So in this car chase what's your goal as the GM? Are the PC's supposed to lose the item? Do they get away and you just don't like the encounter being so short? If it's the latter then find narrative ways to make the PC's think twice about actions. A 10 shift attack is pretty high, not sure what the Weapon damage on that is, but I'd imagine at least a 4. That's the equivalent of battlefield explosives I believe? Maybe the car explodes and now the PC's have to flee the police? Or maybe it flips over into a residential area and you Compel one of the more do-gooder PC's that they need to help the people their cohort has just potentially endangered. As long as you're still working towards the goal you have set as the GM I don't try to get caught up in how I want a scene to go as it rarely ever goes that way. I hope this helps, and good luck!

[Taran]

I'm curious how he got 10 shifts.. .did he roll really well?

Strength Powers shouldn't add to your accuracy.  And, even though the power says Might modifies, you should never let it modify attacks.
So, say he has Fists at +5 and, maybe, a stunt...he should be rolling +6 to hit.

And, for Speed, it only adds +2 to dodge.  Does he have really high Athletics?  If he has a stunt that lets him dodge with Fists, you don't get to apply speed powers to your parry.  It only applies to Athletics.

Also, did the Jeep dodge?  A drive check to get out of the way would reduce the potential hit.

Did  you just roll damage on the Jeep, or did you use the "breaking/lifting" rules?

Also, if the enemy disabled the truck, how does disabling the Jeep ruin the encounter?  The enemies could still attack, could they not?  They shouldn't all take an attack that's aimed at the Jeep.  They could jump out and continue firing?

I've never found Strength Powers to be overly game breaking.  I find Speed Powers to be overly annoying...but, also, not game breaking.

[Haru]

Hmm, that does seem a bit weird, but without a bit more context, it's hard to troubleshoot. Could you provide a fe more details, the character sheet, maybe a write up for the encounter?

Generally, being super strong costs refresh. Being super fast costs refresh. Being super strong AND super fast should almost tap out any character, so he should have quite a few things he can not do, so that's where you should start to look to challenge him. For example, if you have your bad guys attack him mentally, his powers pretty much become useless.

Of course you shouldn't overdo it with those kinds of encounters either, because why should he take those powers and never get to use them? Sometimes it's ok for a character to play out his awesomeness.
If spotlight for other characters might be a problem, it might be that they are too similar in specialties. If they do basically the same thing but one character is objectively better at it, why would you ever chance the less skilled character to do something? Broadening the characters could help.

Then again, the trouble might also lie in the character concept itself. Dresden Files is heavy on tropes, and often you've got a fast guy who isn't usually so tough, and a tough guy who is usually not that fast. I don't know the character concept, other than you say he's got a totem, which sounds like an item of power. That, kind of, sounds like powergaming, trying to squeeze the most points out of the character, which would explain why the character is so powerful.
Now it doesn't have to be like that, and there is actually a strong character concept behind it that explains it all. If that's the case, that would be the next point to look: the item of power. If he's got a +2 item of power, that's going to be a big totem he's lugging around with him. Even at +1. It's still somewhat noticeable, and people could get the idea to steal it or break it or something along those lines, which would, at least temporarily, take his powers away. Though it should be part of a bigger plan on the side of the bad guys, not a GM move because he finds the powers annoying.
Also, the totem could and probably should come with some sort of agenda that will drive the character to do things. Or not do things. A totem for a spirit of protection might not lend his powers to someone who is going out of his way to hurt people.

Then, your opponents should be a challenge in themselves. Turning up with three unprepared mortals to a fight like this is bound to end badly. To counter speed, you can use an ambush. A secret weapon that's prepared and revealed at the right moment, could, for example, allow you to make an attack against him and he would not get to add his skill to his defense roll, just his powers. That should at least hurt a bit. Though you can only do this once, or it gets repetitive (and unreasonable). The ambush stuff can be found, I think, in the description of the stealth skill.

Then some well crafted mundane materials should work nicely to counter him. According to the book, a 10 shift strength roll to break stuff (which I presume was what he did to the jeep) is enough to break through a brick or weak stone wall. Granted, that's quite a bit, but a well armored van, maybe reinforced, should be able to withstand the impact with maybe a deep dent in it but otherwise unharmed.
That's one of the reasons why humanity is still doing well despite all those powerful nasties out there.

Then, a character with toughness powers can counter him quite well for a while. Maybe some defensive stunts as well, and you've got a wall he won't get around too well. A wizard can do some nasty stuff as well, especially blocks. The latter, phrased right, can even negate the bonuses of the powers, if they would not help in breaking the block. Though again, don't do it just to counter the player, do it because the NPCs needed and found a way to counter the player.

[CurkyHangles]

I'm curious how he got 10 shifts.. .did he roll really well?

Strength Powers shouldn't add to your accuracy.  And, even though the power says Might modifies, you should never let it modify attacks.
So, say he has Fists at +5 and, maybe, a stunt...he should be rolling +6 to hit.

And, for Speed, it only adds +2 to dodge.  Does he have really high Athletics?  If he has a stunt that lets him dodge with Fists, you don't get to apply speed powers to your parry.  It only applies to Athletics.

Also, did the Jeep dodge?  A drive check to get out of the way would reduce the potential hit.

Did  you just roll damage on the Jeep, or did you use the "breaking/lifting" rules?

Also, if the enemy disabled the truck, how does disabling the Jeep ruin the encounter?  The enemies could still attack, could they not?  They shouldn't all take an attack that's aimed at the Jeep.  They could jump out and continue firing?

I've never found Strength Powers to be overly game breaking.  I find Speed Powers to be overly annoying...but, also, not game breaking.

I used the lifting/breaking rules with his might skill, supernatural strength, and +4 roll -- As he described his action of jumping out of the truck, running out to the side, and t-boning the jeep.  With his rolls, I basically said he flipped the jeep a couple times.  Driving along at 40-50 mph, it took out all the passengers.

[Haru]

I used the lifting/breaking rules with his might skill, supernatural strength, and +4 roll -- As he described his action of jumping out of the truck, running out to the side, and t-boning the jeep.  With his rolls, I basically said he flipped the jeep a couple times.  Driving along at 40-50 mph, it took out all the passengers.

That sounds like it could have been avoided by a skilled driver by rolling a driving roll against the player's fists skill. If the player hits, he can add his breaking bonuses to see how much damage he does. If the driver can avoid the hit, no damage done.

[Griffyn612]

Not a gamer, so maybe this isn't helpful.  But if the driver/shooters were supernatural, wouldn't they get a speed bonus that might make reaction time/targeting more efficient? 

[Mr. Death]

What refresh are you at? Also, while strength and speed are great, bulldozing a car without a toughness power should've gotten the PC splatted as well.

[Taran]

Did he also have toughness?  hitting a car from the side at that speed would hurt, I'd think.

On one hand, I like how you adjudicated it.  He hit a jeep like he was driving a truck.  And someone with those powers should be able to take out most people handily.

That said, if they weren't mere mooks, I would have made it tougher:

Were they wearing seatbelts?  That would have given them a bonus to 'dodge' the attack.
Since the Jeep took the brunt of the hit, everyone should have had armour against an attack.
The driver should have been able to dodge.

[Sanctaphrax]

Destroying the car with a +10 Might roll sounds fine. But that shouldn't automatically take out everyone in the car. Maybe next time something like this comes up, you can have the baddies come out of the wreck guns blazing.

What other problems have you had with this guy?

[blackstaff67]

I used the lifting/breaking rules with his might skill, supernatural strength, and +4 roll -- As he described his action of jumping out of the truck, running out to the side, and t-boning the jeep.  With his rolls, I basically said he flipped the jeep a couple times.  Driving along at 40-50 mph, it took out all the passengers.

Personally, While Supernatural speed is fast, it isn't as fast as 40-50 mph, at least at my table.  If he's that fast at yours, perhaps a contest of Athletics vs Driver would be called for because jumping out, stopping and then trying to keep pace with a speeding car would be tough.

[RonLugge]

Personally, While Supernatural speed is fast, it isn't as fast as 40-50 mph, at least at my table.  If he's that fast at yours, perhaps a contest of Athletics vs Driver would be called for because jumping out, stopping and then trying to keep pace with a speeding car would be tough.

Given that Mythic speed has the ability to keep up with a car at a sprint, it sounds fair that supernatural doesn't get it.

[CurkyHangles]

Personally, While Supernatural speed is fast, it isn't as fast as 40-50 mph, at least at my table.  If he's that fast at yours, perhaps a contest of Athletics vs Driver would be called for because jumping out, stopping and then trying to keep pace with a speeding car would be tough.

Supernatural speed reads "You're able to move far faster than the eye can see -- or at least so fast that what's seen is only a blur..."  From what other people are replying, it looks like I need to cut back on what he can do in terms of speed.  Also, due to the reading of the rules, I didn't allow the driver to make a dodge role with his driving skill because I assumed he didn't have time to get out of the way.

[Kennifus Prime]

Supernatural speed reads "You're able to move far faster than the eye can see -- or at least so fast that what's seen is only a blur..."  From what other people are replying, it looks like I need to cut back on what he can do in terms of speed.  Also, due to the reading of the rules, I didn't allow the driver to make a dodge role with his driving skill because I assumed he didn't have time to get out of the way.

Maybe you could give the driver an Alertness roll to see if he notices the impending attack. If he succeeds the Alertness roll he gets to make the Driving roll to try and dodge, if he fails the Alertness roll he doesn't. Even at Supernatural Speed he'd have the chance to catch something "blurring" out of a truck and heading right for his vehicle. That's the point of the Alertness skill, after all. Though in this scenario I'm not sure what the opposing roll from the PC would be, as he's not really being Stealthy. Maybe just a set DC from you as the GM would work.

[Taran]

Maybe you could give the driver an Alertness roll to see if he notices the impending attack. If he succeeds the Alertness roll he gets to make the Driving roll to try and dodge, if he fails the Alertness roll he doesn't. Even at Supernatural Speed he'd have the chance to catch something "blurring" out of a truck and heading right for his vehicle. That's the point of the Alertness skill, after all. Though in this scenario I'm not sure what the opposing roll from the PC would be, as he's not really being Stealthy. Maybe just a set DC from you as the GM would work.

We have to be careful here. 

1 There is nothing in the game that prevents you from making dodge rolls.  The closest thing is Ambush and, even that, you still get to roll, albeit at a +0.

2.  There is nothing written in Supernatural Speed that says the person is so fast you can't defend against them.  it does not give you free ambushes.  It does, however, let you do stealth rolls where you may not normally be able to.

So, if the character wanted to say "I jump out stealthily and charge the jeep for an ambush"  I'd say, "sure make a stealth roll against their alertness.  They get a +4 bonus because you are sprinting at them."  'x' number of shifts of that penalty are negated by Supernatural speed.  (I forget what it is...4 shifts?

3.  To quote the OP 

The faster than perception PC jumps out of the truck

Supernatural speed does not make you faster than perception.  You can be seen.

I assume the Jeep had stopped?  If the van was disabled, then the Jeep would have to slow down or stop moving which is the only way I'd let anyone attack the Jeep.  Otherwise he has to spend his whole action keeping up with the vehicle.  Even mythic speed requires you to use your action - you just don't have to roll the dice.

I think I would have done it this way:

Bad guys open fire, truck gets disabled:

Initiative:  Supernatural speed guy goes first.

He moves 1 - or 2 - zones as a free supplemental (I assume you let him smash through the door with his supernatural strength instead of taking an action to open it?)

He attacks.  He gets two options:

1. attack with fists.  Resist with drive.  The Jeep has armour - probably 2 or 3 -  (I assume it was a military jeep), Military Grade weaponry is probably quality 3-5, so it has at least 4 stress boxes - and possibly, a consequence or two.

1a)If he takes the Jeep out, I'd probably make a separate attack on everyone in the Jeep, letting each person make a roll to avoid but let them replace their dodge with the driver's drive roll which he'd do to resist the attack.  Their armour would apply to the attack.

1c) continue down the initiative list.  The baddies have to take actions (supplemental or otherwise) to get out of the car but have armour against attacks while they're in there.

2.  Let the PC do a 'breaking lifting' check.  Take the driver's drive roll and add that to the difficulty to 'break' the jeep.

 the break DC of an armoured Jeep is probably, at least 7 or 8?  A regular car door is 6.  Being able to actually knock the Jeep off the road would be harder.  The lift DC of a midsized car is 9...so it's probably higher.  but since he's not lifting it, I'd put it at the equivalent of, maybe, 'moving it one zone?'  I dunno....hard to know...  so, I'd say, you need to meet that difficulty or beat it by 2 shifts.  So, a 10 would do, but I'd add the driver's skill to that.
 
 2a and 2b same as 1a and 2b

I might compel an aspect, if they have an appropriate one, to have the PC take a hit against the car.  I've seen a Pickup t-bone a car....the pickup was in rough shape. 

So, having spent a day thinking about it, that's how I might run that situation.  Probably different from how others would.  The point is, taking out the car doesn't take out everyone in it automatically.

I had one of my own PCs do this exact thing with a character who had Supernatural Strength.  I forget how we did it exactly, but it was an ambush and I had an option to walk out in front of the car, and try to obliterate it, but I'd have to take an attack from the driver.  Instead, I hit it from the side with a giant hammer....not sure how the GM adjudicated it...in any case, I still had to fight the people inside the car.