Author Topic: Democracy?  (Read 1105 times)

Offline knnn

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Democracy?
« on: January 11, 2016, 02:30:23 AM »
I'm referring to the following quote:

Quote from: Cinder Spires
Bridget: "We're a civilized society, are we not?
Esterbrook: "Since when, miss? We're a democracy."

(Esterbrook then goes into the idea that voting someone out of office is like beheading him, etc).

So what part of the government can be voted out of office?   At first, I was thinking it was maybe like the Consul position back in Roman times (with the nobility being the senate), but the Spirearch position seems to be hereditary and he can apparently unilaterally make cats into citizens and he controls the army.  The Noble houses are presumably hereditary, so what's left?

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Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 02:56:13 AM »
The noble houses send representatives to the governing council, don't they?  It could be something like the British parliament with a House of Lords and a House of Commons.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 03:07:48 AM »
The noble houses send representatives to the governing council, don't they?  It could be something like the British parliament with a House of Lords and a House of Commons.

Only the House of Commons are elected (House of lords are generally appointed), and the Spirearch is still a supreme leader with a *lot* of a executive power (see granted citizenship to a cat), and the nobles also seem to have quite a bit of power.

Even if we assume that the government includes a House a Commons, I don't really see them having enough power for the system to be called a "democracy" with a straight face.  Would you consider the UK of King George III's time to be a democracy?
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Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 04:00:30 AM »
Besides the cat citizenship thing, does the spirearch exercise a huge amount of power?  I could accept that as something unofficial that nobody in charge has had time to complain about yet.  He runs the police force for the Spire, but I was under the impression that the Fleet was its own thing. 
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Offline skybluemonk

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 07:22:53 AM »
The Spirearch states that a monarchy was a necessary evil at one time but that as monarch he is now largely obsolete. There is a Council made up of representatives of the Houses and of all the habbles which he considers sometimes boarders as being fair. This presumes some form of election but perhaps guild based we are not told.
As monarch he seems to have respect and as the story progresses not devoid of power.
So a functioning democracy with a hereditary monarch with constitutional role somewhat similar to a British model but only one body. Like an american president he can presumably present policy to the council which they recognise as long as he is politic enough not to challenge but win to his argument ie cat citizen ship which was not out of the blue  or done to address the duel but a wider purpose of a Spire at war. There are deeper plans we have yet to see.

Offline nedserD C B yrraH

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2016, 05:27:42 PM »
I wasn't sure about this until I re-read recently and noticed Bayard calls Gwen's father the prime minister, which makes me think of a constitutional monarchy, possibly with republic underpinnings (I mean come on, you have such nicely divided districts). How closely they resemble modern or historical models is not obvious.
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Offline Mith

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2016, 07:26:26 PM »
Personally I see the Albion as likely a democracy similar to that of the British Commonwealth for WW2.  King George did not have a lot of power, but he still was a linchpin in keeping the Commonwealth together.  The other example could be the Norwegian King and Parliament during WW2 as another good example.  So on one hand, you had a democracy that ran day to day operations, but the monarch worked as a strong base in times of power, not so much in terms of direct control, but as someone with power to serve as a rally point.
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Offline nedserD C B yrraH

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Re: Democracy?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 01:11:10 AM »
Like an american president he can presumably present policy to the council which they recognise as long as he is politic enough not to challenge but win to his argument ie cat citizen ship which was not out of the blue  or done to address the duel but a wider purpose of a Spire at war. There are deeper plans we have yet to see.

I agree 100 % about the deeper plans. I've been assuming that the Spirearch is known in Cat as Long Thinker. I have also been assuming that there was trade of some sort (most likely genetic) between Humans and Cats in the mist shrouded past (sorry for the double pun, simply couldn't resist), resulting in the Warriorborn and the marked increase in Cats' intelligence. But I am very curious about the repercussions of the Proclamation and it affect on voting. Are cats now eligible for office? How will they be taxed? What about property and estates? I just love the idea of a Cat Magistrate or, even better, Admiral.
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