Author Topic: Should I feel offended?  (Read 5487 times)

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 102582
    • View Profile
Should I feel offended?
« on: October 23, 2015, 07:37:57 PM »
Hubby has began reading the book. He is struggling with it because he is irritated for the constant racism against the Aurorans (corrupt, inneficient). As we are Latin Americans and have Spanis inheritage he feels offended when the Spaniards are attacked. I've told him that the book only reflects the English point of view of British against Spain, at least in the Victorian times. So, it's accurate. He feels it is offensive anyway.

I know you are not of Spanish descent, but do you think someone should be offended by a novel written by the point of view of something who hates your country? I actually loved this book but I am wondering if I should have resent its treatment of my people. I am being not patriot enough?

So my question is not about the particulars but about the general idea of "should we be offended when a book speaks poorly of our country, even if it is in the mindset of an enemy country?" What do you think?
I
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline novaseaker

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 07:55:55 PM »
Aurorans are supposed to be Spaniards? Please forgive my ignorance, but I had no idea that was the case at all.

I think the Aurorans acquit themselves fairly well, objectively, as the main antagonists of the book. Their officers and leaders are shown to be just as honorable as the Albions (keeping their word, being resistant to needless cruelty, abhorring the very idea of mistreating prisoners). When you do get a POV chapter from the Auroran's perspective, you see that they think of the Albions as complacent, greedy, and decadent. It's just that there are many many more Albion POV characters, who are subjective in their opinions, just like everyone else is.

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 102582
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 08:01:51 PM »
Well, it is never explicitly said in the book, as it is not said that Albion is England, but the echoes of the Spanish Armada are clear for me and there are also many Spanish names (Like "Ciervo").

I agree with your second paragraph. Hubby has not yet arrived to the Landing attack (I don't know if he is going to reach that part. He is really angry with the book right now)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11248
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 08:51:48 PM »
Can't control what people are offended by.  Personally, I'd take heart in the fact that the Aurorans we met all resented the mission they were on, and resented the evil woman they were working with.  And the point of view that they provided, that their Spire was struggling while Albion wasn't, is understandable.  It could turn out that they're desperately trying to save their people, and they're willing to harm the few to save the many.  I honestly didn't consider any of them as the 'enemy', other than whats-her-name.

Offline Shecky

  • Bartender
  • O. M. G.
  • ****
  • Posts: 34672
  • Feh.
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 10:02:41 PM »
Remember, in every society, the Enemy is always portrayed in a negative light with a broad brush. This continues even today with the world tightly interlinked as it is; the Other is always a bad thing.
Official forum rules and precepts; please read: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23096.0.html

Quote from: Stanton Infeld
Well, if you couldn't do that with your bulls***, Leonard, I suspect the lad's impervious.

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 102582
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 12:21:52 AM »
I know all that. But the Aurorans accept to work with Cavendish so I don't like them. Anyway, apparently I've convinced him to keep reading.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Chiroptera

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 29052
  • Serious battitude
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2015, 01:48:09 AM »
Quote
at least in the Victorian times.

I think that says it right there.  Ignoring or sugar-coating history doesn't change how it happened and re-telling or re-imagining a historical event or viewpoint doesn't mean the work is condoning it, or suggesting that it should continue today.

Quote
Well, it is never explicitly said in the book, as it is not said that Albion is England, but the echoes of the Spanish Armada are clear for me and there are also many Spanish names (Like "Ciervo").

I think Albion is an old name for the British Isles.


And I have Spanish Armada stuck in my head now. I couldn't find a better version of it.

 
"I don't have a lot of experience with vampires, but I have hunted werewolves. I shot one once.  But by the time I got to it, it had turned back into my neighbors dog." -Dwight Schrute

"And remember, if you are bitten by a bat, you will convulse and turn into one; it is a scientific fact." -MST3K

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 102582
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2015, 01:51:35 AM »
Yes. I've always heard Albion as meaning "England" but perhaps you are right and it involves the whole British Islands. I didn't want to be restricted. Only saying that Albion= British Empire. Aurora= Spanish "empire" (before or after losing the American territories)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3501
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 01:59:35 AM »
I think Albion is an old name for the British Isles.
Yeah, wiki has a few different possible etymologies for Albion, but it's an old name for Britain.  Does anyone know about something similar for Aurora?

As another nice quote, we have that Spire Aurora is west by southwest of Spire Albion from Ch.62 in the beginning, so earlier theories about Aurora referring to some northern settlement are out.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill     

Offline Brightbane

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 961
  • Totally obscene.
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2015, 02:04:11 AM »
Another point towards it being england

Quote
A lean, slick airship flying Albion's scarlet, azure, and white colors sailed up into view
Quote
Bob started tittering. "Look out! Look out for that vicious mega-squirrel, boss!" He said, hardly able to speak clearly. "My gosh! that ficus is about to molest you!"

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11248
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2015, 02:07:42 AM »
I don't know.  There was a mention about something existing for about two thousand years if I recall.  I think we're dealing with another human colony situation, like Alera. 

Anyone know of a lost fleet of multicultural ships?   :P

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3501
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2015, 02:10:28 AM »
I don't know.  There was a mention about something existing for about two thousand years if I recall.  I think we're dealing with another human colony situation, like Alera. 

Anyone know of a lost fleet of multicultural ships?   :P
There was a quote about trying to domesticate the silkweavers for two thousand years.  It's hard to tell how exact that is though.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill     

Offline Rygar

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2015, 02:12:50 AM »
Another point towards it being england

While Albion is quite obviously English in nature, there are scads of nations with those colors on their flags

Offline Brightbane

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 961
  • Totally obscene.
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2015, 02:18:06 AM »
While Albion is quite obviously English in nature, there are scads of nations with those colors on their flags
Yeah, but if the flag had been brown and yellow and purple it would have been a point against
Quote
Bob started tittering. "Look out! Look out for that vicious mega-squirrel, boss!" He said, hardly able to speak clearly. "My gosh! that ficus is about to molest you!"

Offline Mith

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1262
  • Granny Winter, You're the best.
    • View Profile
Re: Should I feel offended?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2015, 04:02:02 AM »
Honestly, Azure and white makes me think Scotland's Cross of Saint Andrew.  Which would be a bit off, since then it would be Alba, not Albion (or Alban).

As for where the name comes from, there is no historical link of the Aurorans to the dawn.  Unless they are a French Spanish hybrid, in which case their is the Sun King.
Mister will never die, because Jim has already been threatened with typhoons, hurricanes, earthquakes and smog by the betas if he tries to off Mister.