Author Topic: Sails?  (Read 10876 times)

Offline Shecky

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2015, 01:12:35 AM »
So we're saying that crystals alone are sufficent to keep a ship in a specific direction?  Kinda like a massive gyro?

No, the combination of webbing (to "catch" the etheric current) and the lift and attitude crystals would do that.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2015, 01:34:38 AM »
No, the combination of webbing (to "catch" the etheric current) and the lift and attitude crystals would do that.

So again, what happens when there is no etheric current, or when you have to shut down the webbing to avoid mistmaws?
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Offline Shecky

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2015, 02:09:24 AM »
So again, what happens when there is no etheric current, or when you have to shut down the webbing to avoid mistmaws?

Seems apparent that sails + lift and attitude crystals would supply motive force and maneuverability, if not quite as powerfully as adding the webbing would.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2015, 02:45:18 AM »
Seems apparent that sails + lift and attitude crystals would supply motive force and maneuverability, if not quite as powerfully as adding the webbing would.

re:maneuverbility, so how do you move in a direction that's not exactly the way the wind is going?  In water, it's the large resistance of the water together with a keel that allows you to keep your ship with sails at an angle to the wind.  If your ship is completely in the air, what keeps the ship from turning into the direction of the wind? 

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Offline Mith

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2015, 03:30:59 AM »
I think the idea behind the lift crystals is to provide the equivalent resistance to the ship that water would have done for a water vessel.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2015, 03:33:53 AM »
I think the idea behind the lift crystals is to provide the equivalent resistance to the ship that water would have done for a water vessel.

That's what I said when I suggested that the crystals act as a large gyro, but Shecky said no.  I'm trying to figure out what other alternatives there are.
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Offline Mith

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2015, 03:37:50 AM »
OK.  I wasn't thinking through exactly what was meant by that statement.
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Offline Shecky

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2015, 11:59:02 AM »
That's what I said when I suggested that the crystals act as a large gyro, but Shecky said no.  I'm trying to figure out what other alternatives there are.

Lift crystals only negate gravity's effect; it's the attitude crystals that cause the ship to pitch/roll/yaw and can therefore provide a differently vectored force. Still, considering that air currents are in three dimensions and not just two, I can see how setting the lift crystal to provide downward or upward force could play into that as well.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2015, 03:35:50 PM »
For what it's worth, it does specifically state that the Wind Sails make flight limited in direction while the etheric webs do not.  The implication I took was that they simply couldnt tack with the wind much when they are under Sail-power and so they had the older Square-style sails for downwind travel rather than the more modern triangle ones that allow for tacking maneuvers. 

By contrast, etheric sailing is all about the Webs.  While I havent figured out all the details of how webs work, I've determined that is relies on two factors: the force achieved in each web is directly proportional to the length of web that is reeled out into the air, and also to the magnitude of the electric charge that is energizing the Web (per ch .  It is in the control and interplay of these two factors on different webs  anchored to various points on the ship (top, bottom, and flanks on the Predator) which allows for maneuvers.  That and the "Maneuvering planes mounted on her hull and in her tail."

It's stated that the Etheric webs dont have the same reliance on a current's direction that wind-power does, but also that the webs do still catch "the invisible currents of etheric energy coursing through the aerosphere", so the best things Ive got for now is that either a) the Etheric currents are not a uniform vector field like a magnetic field or wind currents, and so they are turbulent enough to allow the different ship webs to predictably/reliably be pulled in various directions relative to the ship (or perhaps it's core or lift crystal, if those affect the currents), or else b) the natural etheric current is primarily Downward (as in Folly's Sight) and a Charged length of ethersilk webs simply moves orthogonal to that constant downward flow, much like how the directions of Electric current and it's magnetic field are in different but predictably related directions.

It's also worth noting that etheric travel is restricted to "The Aerosphere" and that alternative locomotion is required below it, or "becalmed in some portion of the sky without etheric currents strong enough to propel a vessel."  So Etheric energy is affected and/or restricted by the unique atmosphere of the SpireWorld, so any assumption needs to contain the caveat that the atmosphere and meteorology of the planet itself could be significantly different from what we know.  I mean, this is a world that apparently supports flying creatures large enough to threaten a ship, after all.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2015, 06:30:17 PM »
Lift crystals only negate gravity's effect; it's the attitude crystals that cause the ship to pitch/roll/yaw and can therefore provide a differently vectored force.

I can see how the pitch and roll would work; e.g. simply put more power into the attitude crystals on the front of the ship and the ship will point up.  But how can the attitude crystals cause the yaw?
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Offline Mith

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2015, 06:42:00 PM »
Hmmm, I guess by definition of the lift crystals, they cannot do that, and from the sounds of it, neither can the trim crystals.
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Offline Shecky

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2015, 06:50:02 PM »
I can see how the pitch and roll would work; e.g. simply put more power into the attitude crystals on the front of the ship and the ship will point up.  But how can the attitude crystals cause the yaw?

Why wouldn't they? Not being argumentative here; I genuinely don't see why they wouldn't work in all three dimensions.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2015, 07:02:53 PM »
Why wouldn't they? Not being argumentative here; I genuinely don't see why they wouldn't work in all three dimensions.

Because to turn a ship left/right you need to give the crystals the ability to move sideways (not just up-down).  And if that's the case, then this means you can actually use the crystals themselves to move the ship forward.
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Offline Shecky

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2015, 07:58:13 PM »
Because to turn a ship left/right you need to give the crystals the ability to move sideways (not just up-down).  And if that's the case, then this means you can actually use the crystals themselves to move the ship forward.

Think of them as the attitude thrusters on a space vessel: they can move the ship, but they tend to provide a few orders of magnitude less thrust than the actual propulsion system. They're the reason I admit I'm making assumptions about the attitude crystals: any airborne vessel needs to have a way to change its attitude in three dimensions and not just move.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Sails?
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2015, 09:05:47 PM »
Think of them as the attitude thrusters on a space vessel: they can move the ship, but they tend to provide a few orders of magnitude less thrust than the actual propulsion system. They're the reason I admit I'm making assumptions about the attitude crystals: any airborne vessel needs to have a way to change its attitude in three dimensions and not just move.
The difference, I think, is that the trim and Lift crystals are not actual thrusters, they are anti-gravity pumps.  They can tilt a vessel by applying less lift to a port-side trim crystal than the starbard-side, but the forces are always acting only in the vertical plane in direct opposition of natural gravity, and so they cant actually apply force in a horozontal direction.  I think the horozontal rotation (ie "Yaw", for those that dont want to look it up like I had to :p) comes from teh interplay of the "Control planes" (wings) and the asymetric pulling from the various Etheric Webs.
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