Author Topic: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)  (Read 1010 times)

Offline Dina

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Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« on: October 12, 2015, 05:03:09 AM »
I loved the book but I specially wanted to thank you for creating awesome female characters. Gwen, Bridget and Folly are great and Cavendish is a scary villain. The only character I don't like is Ransom. The "evil ex-wife" it a tiresome plot and even when she tried to save Grimm, she fired over the other ships and the shipyard and she caused many, many deaths. So she really deserved something worse than what she got.

I love the humanity in Gwen, Bridget and Folly, they are very different women. And even when Gwen, the petite trigger-happy girl has some reminiscences of Murphy, she never annoyed me as much as Murph in Storm Front and other books. I think Gwen is actually my favorite character (it's difficult, I love most of the characters)

Oh, and Jim, thank you for allowing a balance, the girls are not always the ones in danger, sometimes they are the ones who rescue their male friends. And sometimes, they are rescued by them too. And that is fair. Grimm, Benedict and Master Ferus are awesome too. I also love Bayard, Kettle, Journeyman, even Creedy. And the Spirearch! And I can respect Spira as a foe.
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Offline Tarion

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 09:15:21 AM »
The only character I don't like is Ransom. The "evil ex-wife" it a tiresome plot and even when she tried to save Grimm, she fired over the other ships and the shipyard and she caused many, many deaths. So she really deserved something worse than what she got.
I'm not sure it's fair to call her evil.

She's just a mercenary.  Spire Albion isn't her home, and the docks are established as a valid war target. 

She doesn't do anything particularly reprehensible, she just takes part in a military operation for money. 

But yes, I agree with you about everything else.  The women in this book made me happy.

Offline Dina

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 07:16:35 PM »
I used "evil ex-wife" for reference. It means it was evil for Grimm because she stole things from him and cheated in the race. And what she did could be legit war targets but she allowed the death of inocents, so she is reprehensible for me. So I have two critics. One as a character. It's a cliché and not a good one. The other is as the character's actions, which I don't like.
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Tarion

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 09:08:05 PM »
I used "evil ex-wife" for reference. It means it was evil for Grimm because she stole things from him and cheated in the race. And what she did could be legit war targets but she allowed the death of inocents, so she is reprehensible for me. So I have two critics. One as a character. It's a cliché and not a good one. The other is as the character's actions, which I don't like.
Ah, I see.

I think I disagree on both.

For the "evil ex wife" bit, I just don't think that's the trope that Butcher is going with.  She might be a rival, but I see her working with Grimm just as easily as against him.  Yes, she cheated in the race, but that doesn't seem out of character for Grimm to do back to her, which to me makes it feel more like competition and less like they're enemies.  But we'll see how that develops in time. 

As for the death of innocents, do you feel the same way about Grimm?  Because he was, essentially, a pirate at the start of the book (A privateer attacking ships outside of wartime is basically indistinguishable from state sanctioned piracy).  He's being used to attack targets that the Spire Navy can't officially target.  A good chunk of that will involve the death of innocents - The Cortez class he attacks at the beginning is officially a merchant vessel and he has no problem blowing holes in the ship, no doubt killing people on board. 

How is him attacking merchant ships during peace time different than her attacking essentially the same ships for the other side while they're at port? 

Offline Dina

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 09:18:05 PM »
Well, yes, of course I think more or less the same. All people in the book are killers and I will never like it. But Ransom helped in something that killed a lot of civilians in Albion, that is what makes the difference, the number of casualties. Also, I am not sure the piracy involves deaths. If the attacked ships surrender, I don't see the need of casualties. After all, ships have shields.

Oh, I forgot to add Gwen's mom. I liked her a lot too! And Mirl! Basically, the only character I don't like is Ransom. My only complain is that there are not mentioned female in the Predator crew.

Missing you, Md 

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Offline Aminar

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 03:12:40 AM »
As far as the evil-ex goes. I don't much think it's that either. I got more of a... We love eachother but we can't live with eachother vibe. It's actually a really cool start to a story, depending where Jim takes it. But it could also be venting his demons. And that's cool with me too.
I did like the male female balance. It's what I try to do in my own writing. I find female characters more fun to write. But I always worry if I get anything wrong or "wrong" that I'll be hamstrung, drawn, tarred, and quartered.
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Offline Dina

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 03:19:41 AM »
Well, perhaps I am projecting too much of Elaine on her, or my fear that she ends showing with a little Grimmette that she hide from him. I don't know, I just don't like her.

Yes, the male female balance is very good.
Missing you, Md 

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Offline Tarion

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 07:07:16 AM »
Also, I am not sure the piracy involves deaths. If the attacked ships surrender, I don't see the need of casualties. After all, ships have shields
But, as established at the beginning of the book, Predator's MO is to drop on the target and attack them before their shroud is up.  Given their lack of armour, the only way that attack can work is if they cripple the ship straight away.

And when they find the ship's shroud is up, they blow away a 30 foot section of hull, almost definitely killing crew. 

Offline Dina

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 02:15:40 PM »
Ah, all right. That is bad too. (I sometimes miss part of the description of the airship combat because I don't care for it and I don't know some of the terms. English is not my first language)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Quantus

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 03:09:32 PM »
As far as the evil-ex goes. I don't much think it's that either. I got more of a... We love eachother but we can't live with eachother vibe. It's actually a really cool start to a story, depending where Jim takes it. But it could also be venting his demons. And that's cool with me too.
This was the tone I got from it too. It actually reminds me a lot (or Im projecting a lot) of Highlander and the relationship between Duncan McCleod and Amanda, the immortal thief and con-artist; they've been in love for centuries, but both accept that they could never actually stay together for any length of time.  And find each other on opposite sides as at least as often as on the same side. 
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Offline Dina

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 05:49:49 PM »
I didn't get that vibe.
(click to show/hide)
Missing you, Md 

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Offline Quantus

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Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 08:13:52 PM »
I didn't get that vibe.
(click to show/hide)
Dont get me wrong, theirs sounds like a much more rocky relationship, with more bitterness and past grudges.  I imagine some of that comes from being professional competitors, as much as anything. 
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