Author Topic: Dogs  (Read 1889 times)

Offline knnn

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Dogs
« on: October 08, 2015, 02:30:50 PM »
I wonder if there might not be dogs around somewhere.  Grimm calls the Spirearch a "son of a bitch".  While the word 'bitch' is a general insulting term, I'm pretty sure the etymology is from "dog/wolf". 
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 03:47:14 PM »
I wonder if there might not be dogs around somewhere.  Grimm calls the Spirearch a "son of a bitch".  While the word 'bitch' is a general insulting term, I'm pretty sure the etymology is from "dog/wolf".
Could be a carry-over of the pre-Spire times, like the surface animals that no longer exist but are traditionally used as names for tavern/Inns, Horses and the like. 

Of course, that would be that the Cat's won the War in the end, and that makes me cry.  So Im hoping they are still around, also advanced like the Cats, and are acting as companions and protectors to a faction of Humanity that never retreated to the spires and is living on the surface (likely locked in a more active War with The Enemy). 
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Offline knnn

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 03:20:04 AM »
Could be a carry-over of the pre-Spire times, like the surface animals that no longer exist but are traditionally used as names for tavern/Inns, Horses and the like. 

Perhaps, I would think that getting it to stay around as a curse word for so long would require more of an ongoing impression.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 12:41:07 PM »
Perhaps, I would think that getting it to stay around as a curse word for so long would require more of an ongoing impression.
I dont know, the taverns have maintained both names and images of these lost animals, so it's not ridiculously distant, even if they are all but mythic.  Besides, the etymology of words, especially insults, is a constantly evolving thing that often loose sight of their original meaning. Even now 'Bitch' has less accociation with dogs and more with complaints, cowards or beligerant women, depending on it's usage.  Ive heard at least three different origins for the phrase "fuck you" and only one of them was sexual.  I myself have enjoyed reviving insults from bygone era's ideally with little knowledge of its original meaning. 
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Offline knnn

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 07:21:39 PM »
I myself have enjoyed reviving insults from bygone era's ideally with little knowledge of its original meaning.

Perhaps.   

Fact is that "bitch" is used several times during the series, by different people (though they might have all been aeronaughts).  This implies a wider familiarity.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 01:36:02 PM »
Perhaps.   

Fact is that "bitch" is used several times during the series, by different people (though they might have all been aeronaughts).  This implies a wider familiarity.
Wider usage certainly, but a wider familiarity with it's historic origins?  These are sailor's we are talking about here, and I dont get the impression that Public schooling is a thing on the Spires.   
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Offline Tarion

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 02:25:34 PM »
Perhaps.   

Fact is that "bitch" is used several times during the series, by different people (though they might have all been aeronaughts).  This implies a wider familiarity.
We live in a world in which Nimrod was accidentally redefined by Bugs Bunny to mean an idiot. 

People are often unfamiliar with the roots of their language.  I wouldn't take someone using "bitch" as an insult as evidence they're familiar with dogs, any more than I would assume someone using nimrod as an insult was familiar with the biblical character. 

Offline knnn

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 02:41:17 PM »
We live in a world in which Nimrod was accidentally redefined by Bugs Bunny to mean an idiot. 

People are often unfamiliar with the roots of their language.  I wouldn't take someone using "bitch" as an insult as evidence they're familiar with dogs, any more than I would assume someone using nimrod as an insult was familiar with the biblical character.

Fair enough.  Okay, so dogs lived sometime in the past, and barely anyone knows what they are now.

FWIW, having grown up with bible stories, I never understood why nimrod was an insult.  I mean sure he wasn't a role model, but still.
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Offline Tarion

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 02:47:35 PM »
Fair enough.  Okay, so dogs lived sometime in the past, and barely anyone knows what they are now.

FWIW, having grown up with bible stories, I never understood why nimrod was an insult.  I mean sure he wasn't a role model, but still.
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In 20th-century American English, the term is now commonly used to mean a dimwitted or a stupid person, a usage first recorded in 1932 and popularized by the cartoon character Bugs Bunny, who sarcastically refers to the hunter Elmer Fudd as "nimrod", as an ironic connection between "mighty hunter" and "poor little Nimrod", i.e. Fudd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod#Idiom

Basically, because people didn't get the reference they didn't understand the sarcasm. 

Offline Hofner1962

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2015, 11:46:20 PM »
Clearly this story is post Dresden BAT and and Mister is the sire of all the cats.  (Seriously -what is it with Jim and 30 lb cats)

Mouse's descendents are still about somewhere.

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Offline Shecky

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2015, 04:28:21 AM »
Basically, because people didn't get the reference they didn't understand the sarcasm.

The word "terrible" has shifted similarly in just the past century.
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Offline Chelle

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 01:50:40 PM »
Clearly this story is post Dresden BAT and and Mister is the sire of all the cats.  (Seriously -what is it with Jim and 30 lb cats)

 :)

I was going to go with all cats being part malk.  Would also support covering all iron with copper which would shield anything fae from the danger.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 11:42:01 PM »
Personally, I want there to be dogs, but I don't want them to be able to talk.  That will lead to the inevitable conversation between Bridget and Rowl.

B: Why can't dogs talk?
R: They used to.
B: Used to?  Why don't they any more?
R: Because we cats told them not to.
B: Why did you do that?
R: <flat gaze> Because all they ever said was, "look, I peed there! And there!  And there!"
B: <laughs> That can't be true.
R: <ear twitch> No. They also said "I will pee there!" and "Who peed there?!"

Offline Mith

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 01:30:52 AM »
Personal WAG:  The Dogs are at the base of the Spire keeping things out.  Cats get the things that get in past the Dogs.
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Offline Dina

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Re: Dogs
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 01:37:42 AM »
I think Dogs are in the surface too.
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