Author Topic: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far  (Read 9566 times)

Offline Mith

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2015, 06:58:56 PM »
@ Serack: Does the technical design of the ship make sense from an Electrical Eng. point of view?  I ask because I am in Civil, so my alarm bells won't be set off from anything other then something really basic.  The iea of an electrical gradient in the air makes sense to me, since there is a gradient formed prior to a lightning strike  during a thunderstorm, so a lesser, but more sustainable (as in it doesn't burn up after one "strike") gradient could be established by the webbing.  Although an electrical field "sail" could also work, but I would think that the environment would be too harsh to survive without protective gear if you have enough of a charge in the wind to push on the sail.
Mister will never die, because Jim has already been threatened with typhoons, hurricanes, earthquakes and smog by the betas if he tries to off Mister.

Offline Serack

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2015, 09:25:40 PM »
@ Serack: Does the technical design of the ship make sense from an Electrical Eng. point of view?  I ask because I am in Civil, so my alarm bells won't be set off from anything other then something really basic.  The iea of an electrical gradient in the air makes sense to me, since there is a gradient formed prior to a lightning strike  during a thunderstorm, so a lesser, but more sustainable (as in it doesn't burn up after one "strike") gradient could be established by the webbing.  Although an electrical field "sail" could also work, but I would think that the environment would be too harsh to survive without protective gear if you have enough of a charge in the wind to push on the sail.

Meh, there's enough hand waving vaguery that it doesn't really matter.  Which is as it should be.
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Offline Serack

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2015, 09:32:40 PM »
On a similar note, I've only read the beta version, and I understand there was at least one huge change to some of the ethereal technology that has been done before it was published to enhance the story telling of that aspect of the world, so I'd have to read the released material to really form an opinion, both to see the end material, and so that I'm not recollecting something from last year.

Jim did have some serious discussion on some this stuff with the betas while it was in flux though.
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Offline Mith

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2015, 10:41:45 PM »
Fair enough.
Mister will never die, because Jim has already been threatened with typhoons, hurricanes, earthquakes and smog by the betas if he tries to off Mister.

Offline crusher_bob

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2015, 02:20:14 AM »
My best guess would be that the mighty Battleship named Dreadnought was the original of a new design (and a flagship by the sound of it) and that afterward they started mass producing a new class of battleship based on it's design.

I'd assume it's more of a reference to the historical HMS Dreadnought whose design was so influential that post Dreadnought battleships (who used the Dreadnoughts armament layout) were often referred to as 'dreadnoughts] and battleships completed using the old design scheme were relabeled as 'pre-dreadnoughts'

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2015, 02:26:34 AM »
Excellent observations.  From an Electrical Engineering PoV, it implies a voltage gradient in the air that the "webbing" has to be charged to generate force against, however, the force is transferred at the crystals judging by the mount observation. 

I had thought that the webbing gets an induced "current" that then gets channeled to and harnessed by the crystals to drive the ships.

It looks like the webbing needs to be electrically charged to interact with the winds in the ether.  The crystals provide the electrical power to do this.  In addition, the webbing is a specific thing that interacts with the curents/winds in the ether.  A 'regular' object charged with electricity doesn't seem to have any problems with wanting to move around.

Offline cass

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2015, 04:05:36 AM »
I'd assume it's more of a reference to the historical HMS Dreadnought whose design was so influential that post Dreadnought battleships (who used the Dreadnoughts armament layout) were often referred to as 'dreadnoughts] and battleships completed using the old design scheme were relabeled as 'pre-dreadnoughts'

Plus the meaning of the name itself was very appropriate for an extremely powerful battleship -- dreadnought = dread + nought, literally fear-nothing, or, a ship that has nothing to fear.

Offline Aesir

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2015, 10:15:02 AM »
Whether or not the D in Dreadnought is capitalized appears to be significant:

Chap 2: A truly efficient combat dive required a brief, severe period of reduction in speed, and Grimm had read accounts of battleships and dreadnaughts that had attempted a dive, only to have their lift crystals tear themselves entirely free of the ship when attempting to arrest their descent too rapidly.

Chap 20: Behind the desk, in a case, were miniature replicas of each and every airship in the Aetherium Fleet of Albion, from the mighty battleship Dreadnaught, the size of Rowl, down to the tiniest destroyer, Energetic, no larger than Gwen’s smallest finger.

As has already been said by others, I think it very likely that Dreadnaught is the highly influential first ship in a class of battleships that were larger than anything built before. Therefore a dreadnought (little d) is an especially large battleship, which in Albion's navy means ships of the Dreadnaught (big D) class.

The quote from chapter 20 very heavily implies that Dreadnaught is the largest ship in Albion's navy, so I'm keeping it simple and not speculating on the possibility that there might be a newer class of same-sized or slightly smaller big battleships (dread naughts) in service beyond those of the Dreadnaught class.   



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Offline Quantus

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2015, 12:46:24 PM »
I agree that merchantmen used to carry heavy armaments back during the golden age of piracy. But my point here is that all military vessels we see in the book are armoured. Predator isn't. The closest classification I can find for her is a Q-ship: A warship disguised as a merchantman, but carrying military-grade weaponry.
Fair point


It looks like the webbing needs to be electrically charged to interact with the winds in the ether.  The crystals provide the electrical power to do this.  In addition, the webbing is a specific thing that interacts with the curents/winds in the ether.  A 'regular' object charged with electricity doesn't seem to have any problems with wanting to move around.
Agreed.  And one of the noted differences between using the Ethereal Sails and wind power is that wind dictates your direction, which by implication is not an issue with the etheric ones.  The part describing the paratroopers infiltration seemed to indicate that the webs are indeed a special material, so I think that normal things simply dont interect with the energy. 
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Offline Serack

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2015, 01:51:33 PM »
Agreed.  And one of the noted differences between using the Ethereal Sails and wind power is that wind dictates your direction, which by implication is not an issue with the etheric ones.  The part describing the paratroopers infiltration seemed to indicate that the webs are indeed a special material, so I think that normal things simply dont interect with the energy.

Bah, definitely gotta reread, I forgot about the paratroopers thing.

My field is Cranes, and we use/design for dynamic breaking all the time (motor works as a generator to convert the energy of lowering a heavy load to electrical energy, that then either gets shunted to the power grid, or dissipated in resistors)
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Offline crusher_bob

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2015, 03:49:23 AM »
Next, on to more about how things look and work.

Would assume deploying the webbing is something similar to parachute spider use, since it doesn't seem to need to be directly manipulated by the sailors, just spun out of the ships web masts, or whatever they are called.

It sounds like ship will typically have 4 sets of webbing, which I'd guess are deployed in a + or X shape around the ship.  Since it sounds like you don't tack or otherwise change the webbing to sail in different directions I guess it just provides motive power straight ahead, no need chance how the webbing of the ship depending on which way the ether wind is blowing.

Next, shrouds are spherical, so I'd guess that airships would generally be pretty rounded themselves.

It sounds like warships are typically armored on the sides, but considerably less armored on the top and bottom.  Of course, this could just be the case with lighter ships.  Their armor may just be concentrated in the places a light ship is more likely to be shot.  While heavier (and presumably less agile) ships might have heavier ventral and dorsal armor.

It's not entirely clear whether armor is fully ablative or more 'bouncy', but it looks like most battles are relatively close actions, which means that carrying armor heavy enough to bounce shots may be difficult.

Would think that fire would be a major concern on airships, since they are largely made of wood, and there's no handy ocean to get water from.  Probably a fortune to be made in developing light weight firefighting foam, since loading your airship down with (heavy) water is probably not the most useful thing to carry.  Though there are some interesting possibilities for water jackets, similar to how tank ammunition is stored in certain tanks.

Airships do have movable planes or winglets as control surfaces, though the airship needs to be going fast enough that there is enough air passing over them to provide much control.  Would imply that they have pretty serious manuverability problems at low speeds.

Now clear how the steam engine or steam turbine moves the ship.  I guess they turn props?

So would guess that airships look something like whales or zepplins?

Would assume that airships are not made of iron because of the iron rot.  All the follow on possibilities, like Duralumin and Beryllium copper are too high tech.  Though, in theory, they do probably have enough electrical power to smelt aluminum.  Alas, power crystals go into airships, so no spare power for the industrial revolution. 

And with no overseas colonies to exploit for more raw materials, I'd guess that resource wars of one sort or another are pretty common.


Offline Quantus

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2015, 12:50:17 PM »
Next, on to more about how things look and work.

Would assume deploying the webbing is something similar to parachute spider use, since it doesn't seem to need to be directly manipulated by the sailors, just spun out of the ships web masts, or whatever they are called.

It sounds like ship will typically have 4 sets of webbing, which I'd guess are deployed in a + or X shape around the ship.  Since it sounds like you don't tack or otherwise change the webbing to sail in different directions I guess it just provides motive power straight ahead, no need chance how the webbing of the ship depending on which way the ether wind is blowing.
They reel them out, but how much they can reel is limited by the ship size.  Ill have to check but i think they mentioned how the Iscica (sp?) had more reels than them as well, being substantially larger than the other vessels.  Im still combing it for more references about the direction of the motive force, but Im still thinking the crystals only go up and down, which is why the dives are still the best tactic for speed. 
Quote
Next, shrouds are spherical, so I'd guess that airships would generally be pretty rounded themselves.
It described the shroud as extending out in a radius from the hull, but I dont know if it was literally spherical (emitted in radius from central Core Crystal) or a field that matched the ship shape so some extent.  For that matter I need to find a reference to whether it was a direct function of the Core Crystal or if it had additional systems. 
Quote
It sounds like warships are typically armored on the sides, but considerably less armored on the top and bottom.  Of course, this could just be the case with lighter ships.  Their armor may just be concentrated in the places a light ship is more likely to be shot.  While heavier (and presumably less agile) ships might have heavier ventral and dorsal armor.

It's not entirely clear whether armor is fully ablative or more 'bouncy', but it looks like most battles are relatively close actions, which means that carrying armor heavy enough to bounce shots may be difficult.
The cannon fire is etheric in nature just like the gauntlets, to it's possible that the ship armor functions by diverting the energy, much like those etheric silk vests that they were using, rather than traditional plating.
Quote
Would think that fire would be a major concern on airships, since they are largely made of wood, and there's no handy ocean to get water from.  Probably a fortune to be made in developing light weight firefighting foam, since loading your airship down with (heavy) water is probably not the most useful thing to carry.  Though there are some interesting possibilities for water jackets, similar to how tank ammunition is stored in certain tanks.
Would be that the same could be said for a Habble made out of wood too...  I think the Builders even had rules about such things. 

That being said, a firefighting foam or powder or even tanks of inert gas certainly wouldnt be out of the question for their tech level. 

Quote
Airships do have movable planes or winglets as control surfaces, though the airship needs to be going fast enough that there is enough air passing over them to provide much control.  Would imply that they have pretty serious maneuverability problems at low speeds.
Now clear how the steam engine or steam turbine moves the ship.  I guess they turn props?

So would guess that airships look something like whales or zeppelins?
[/quote]Pretty close.  But flat on top.  And with Ship-Trees.  :)

Quote
Would assume that airships are not made of iron because of the iron rot.  All the follow on possibilities, like Duralumin and Beryllium copper are too high tech.  Though, in theory, they do probably have enough electrical power to smelt aluminum.  Alas, power crystals go into airships, so no spare power for the industrial revolution. 
Wood.  Good old fashioned expensive, dangerous, flammable wood.  Tar sealants, etc. 
Quote
And with no overseas colonies to exploit for more raw materials, I'd guess that resource wars of one sort or another are pretty common.
True, thought they have a ridiculously dangerous Surface world to exploit when they are crazy enough.  Apparently they still do even use overland travel at times. 
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Offline crusher_bob

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2015, 01:58:28 PM »
They reel them out, but how much they can reel is limited by the ship size.  Ill have to check but i think they mentioned how the Iscica (sp?) had more reels than them as well, being substantially larger than the other vessels.

I was under the impression that the Itasca had more webbing to put out just like they had more guns.  It's more about how much storage space, 'accounted for' damage resistance, etc that comes from being a both larger and a dedicated warship.

Quote
Im still combing it for more references about the direction of the motive force, but Im still thinking the crystals only go up and down, which is why the dives are still the best tactic for speed. 
Ships has several crystals:

Core crystal / power crystal: most expensive / irreplaceable
Provides main electrical power to energize webbing, power shroud, power main lift crystals
Larger ships (especially warships) may have multiple power crystals.

(Main) lift crystals
Provide the main lifting force that holds airships up.  Must be firmly anchored (in the center of the ship?) because the crystal just lifts itself.  If the anchorage fails, the lift crystal keeps going up, the ship, not so much.

Larger ship may have more than one lift crystal?

Trim crystals

Used to maintain level (side to side) and trim (up and down) level of the ship.  They also provide 'lift' but are much weaker, smaller, and cheaper than the ships main lift crystals.  Ship requires several of them (eight, at least?)

Ship can be maneuvered by changing power to the lift crystals, but is rather exacting and wallowing.  Main airship maneuvers are managed with rudder/winglets, but those require airflow.

Dives are fast because you can just turn off your lift crystal and do them.  No need to worry about how much webbing your can power, or whatever.

Quote
It described the shroud as extending out in a radius from the hull, but I dont know if it was literally spherical (emitted in radius from central Core Crystal) or a field that matched the ship shape so some extent.  For that matter I need to find a reference to whether it was a direct function of the Core Crystal or if it had additional systems.

Quote
The shroud was a field of energy generated by a ship’s crystal power core. When a cannon blast struck the shroud, it illuminated like a hazy, spherical cloud flickering with lightning, absorbing the incoming fire and dispersing its energy safely before it could strike the ship. Shrouds were a strain upon a ship’s core, a tremendous demand upon the core’s energy reserve. One did not simply sail along with the ship’s shroud raised and in place.

Quote
That being said, a firefighting foam or powder or even tanks of inert gas certainly wouldnt be out of the question for their tech level. 

Had thought that compressed gas would be beyond them, but:

Quote
“What kind of altitude could she take us to, chief?”
Journeyman scratched his ear with one broken-nailed finger. “Seven, maybe eight miles? Way higher’n we could breathe without tanks, anyway
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 02:18:39 PM by crusher_bob »

Offline Quantus

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2015, 07:26:20 PM »
I was under the impression that the Itasca had more webbing to put out just like they had more guns.  It's more about how much storage space, 'accounted for' damage resistance, etc that comes from being a both larger and a dedicated warship.
Agreed, I just thought it was specifically mentioned, like how it has three Core Crystals.  I could easily be wrong though.
Quote

Ship can be maneuvered by changing power to the lift crystals, but is rather exacting and wallowing.  Main airship maneuvers are managed with rudder/winglets, but those require airflow.
I got the impression main maneuvers were accomplished with the etheric silk web, and only used steam or wind power when they could not use their web for some reason (like having it burned away, or needing quiet).
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Dives are fast because you can just turn off your lift crystal and do them.  No need to worry about how much webbing your can power, or whatever.
Agreed, the web appears to be a maneuvering rig.  It's related in that it's another drain on the Core's available power, but the web doesnt appear to feed power/electricity anywhere, rather it uses electricity and generates (or captures) motive force. 
Quote
Had thought that compressed gas would be beyond them, but:
In general Id say Compressed Gas will always have to be possible for people with steam power.
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Offline knnn

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Re: Cinder Spires Airship Specs So Far
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2015, 03:24:28 AM »
This is what I have so far, but if you can think of something I missed please feel free to add it.

Pretty sure those 3 ships at the end (Valiant and Victorius and the other one) were cruisers or heavy cruisers.
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