Author Topic: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?  (Read 10049 times)

Offline solbergb

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2014, 04:01:52 PM »
Fate Core suggests that you set difficulties for their equivalent of Declaration based on how much it advances the story, ie "rule of cool".

If it's something you want on the scene the moment it's suggested you set the difficulty very low. If you could go either way, set it at 2-3. add +2 to the difficulty for things like "it's boring", "it isn't very likely".  If a player really wants it there and his character's built for it, you can get the huge outcome and have a "Leverage" type flashback scenario where they perhaps earlier placed the thing on the scene, or got minions to do it or something.

Offline Taran

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »
DFRPG already does that.  It has a check list which increases/decreases difficulties of declarations depending on how it adds to the story.  I don't remember which page.

And, that's fine on a +0 to +8 but, in D&D, at higher levels, when skills are hitting high twenties and low thirties, it's harder to balance.

Offline Himana

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2014, 12:38:19 AM »
I greatly enjoy the FATE system, and it's perhaps my favorite system that I've ever come across for a couple reasons. (This is referencing the FATE core system in general as well as the DFRPG.)

1. The FATE system is rules-light, but offers a very large room for modular improvements. For people who prefer more "crunchy" systems, you can basically just insert a custom system into it with little to no fuss.

2. It allows players to come up with extremely narratively different ideas in conflicts, that I as a GM am more able to facilitate. For example, I had a group going through one of the pre-gen cases and he was a minor talent, but had little to no combat ability. They got into a physical conflict so he was unable to do much on his own, until he had the idea to use the car as a weapon. In more numbers heavy systems, I would've had to do massive amounts of mental calculations to figure out how much damage it could do to feel impactful but not be broken. In FATE I just say all right roll your Drive and it's a Weapon:4.

3. It allows for character archetypes and ideas that aren't strictly the most powerful in physical conflict. Pathfinder and D&D often have this problem where if people don't build powerful combat builds they won't be useful in the encounters. Now there can be instances where a GM can facilitate a game without this problem by having it be intrigue, but I personally don't have the skill nor the players to be inclined to do it. In FATE being a know-it-all about random topics can be used mechanically in combat to help your allies. This gives people who are not necessarily all about combat the ability to still function in physical conflict. In FATE it would be entirely possible to play a complete pacifist and still contribute in fights.

Offline MadAlchemist

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2014, 07:57:24 PM »
I'm a big fan of the Fate system in general. I've played pen and paper RPGs for... Many, may years. The cooperative storytelling aspect fits my style of game well. It's probably second only to Deadlands(Classic) on my list of most loved game systems. I actually shamelessly borrow from the ideas of both of those games when I use either. The Fate chip rewards for Deadlands are a little easier for me to use even in Fate. So when I GM Fate I award fate points less for my compels than for playing your aspects in ways that enhance the stories in addition to the general self-compel type awards.   
That said, with a poor GM it fails fast and hard. If your GM doesn't keep the Fate points rolling you can stagnate quickly.
My worst tabletop game was a Dresden Files game. The rare few compels that were offered were poorly thought out. We started with 8 refresh and my Camp Kaboom Warden got offered one compel in three sessions of play. When we tried skills every single one of our skill tests were put at our rank +1. When we tried to capture a rouge Wizard the GM conceded without giving anything up and auto-escaped. Even our supposedly helpful NPCs, the contacts we made up during city creation, forced us to wade through an actual minefield just to talk. Essentialy making everything that makes Fate a good system pointless and our characters incompetent.
Every system has trouble with bad GMs but the lack of hard and fast rules for everything (Like D&D) magnifies those issues. Kind of reminds me of seafood; Done well delicious. Done poorly terrible.

Offline potestas

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2014, 11:23:52 PM »
I'm a big fan of the Fate system in general. I've played pen and paper RPGs for... Many, may years. The cooperative storytelling aspect fits my style of game well. It's probably second only to Deadlands(Classic) on my list of most loved game systems. I actually shamelessly borrow from the ideas of both of those games when I use either. The Fate chip rewards for Deadlands are a little easier for me to use even in Fate. So when I GM Fate I award fate points less for my compels than for playing your aspects in ways that enhance the stories in addition to the general self-compel type awards.   
That said, with a poor GM it fails fast and hard. If your GM doesn't keep the Fate points rolling you can stagnate quickly.
My worst tabletop game was a Dresden Files game. The rare few compels that were offered were poorly thought out. We started with 8 refresh and my Camp Kaboom Warden got offered one compel in three sessions of play. When we tried skills every single one of our skill tests were put at our rank +1. When we tried to capture a rouge Wizard the GM conceded without giving anything up and auto-escaped. Even our supposedly helpful NPCs, the contacts we made up during city creation, forced us to wade through an actual minefield just to talk. Essentialy making everything that makes Fate a good system pointless and our characters incompetent.
Every system has trouble with bad GMs but the lack of hard and fast rules for everything (Like D&D) magnifies those issues. Kind of reminds me of seafood; Done well delicious. Done poorly terrible.

this is probably one of the best and most honest answers i;ve seen

Offline Taran

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2014, 02:07:07 AM »
I've seen D&D games fail just as badly with a poor DM, so I'm not sure that reflects on the game, specifically.  In fact, I've seen quite a few gaming system die with poor GM's.  Maybe I'm unlucky that way.

Offline MadAlchemist

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2014, 06:43:47 AM »
I've seen D&D games fail just as badly with a poor DM, so I'm not sure that reflects on the game, specifically.  In fact, I've seen quite a few gaming system die with poor GM's.  Maybe I'm unlucky that way.
Oh no doubt, but hey, if you play enough games you will get some bad ones. They are usually short distractions, even if the are sometimes more common than the good ones. A good tabletop game can keep entertaining you and your friends for months or years.
I just don't think Fate is a good starter game for GMing. It take a particular mindset to run this system that is both awesome and hard for some people to grasp. You can't be playing against your players and make it fun for them. (Your villains can and should.) The Dresden books make the cooperative aspect a big deal but not everyone gets that. I think most people need to run a bad game or two (or more) before they can run a good one. Fate is almost beautifully simple to run for an experienced GM, but that simplicity can bite you in the ass if you don't know what you are doing.   

Offline solbergb

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2014, 01:30:01 PM »
The rule of thumb for a bad experience in 3.5 or Pathfinder Organized Play (eg, Living Greyhawk, Pathfinder Society) was you had to have two of three things true.

1.  Bad gm
2.  Bad module
3.  Bad mix of players at the table

A fun group of players and a module that is well written can overcome a poorly prepared GM stumbling through the encounters and box-text descriptions because they'll chew on the scenery, make their own fun and nobody will suddenly die by a GM mistake in the combat encounters or have the adventure derail because the PCs are competent and the module's organized assuming at least some people will be running it cold.

A good gm and a good module can generally adapt it in minor ways on the fly to the foibles of dysfunctional, incompetent or contentious PCs and give a pretty good experience anyway, drawing them into the game.

A good GM and good players will have a pretty good game, no matter what the author of the module did, and I've seen some doozies there.  My favorite anecdote along these lines had a fairly normal adventure start an encounter with the gm just going "sorry about this" and having the following monsters attack our river boat....

Flying awakened (intelligent) squid barbarians, juiced up on potions wielding multiple axes in their tentacles.  The table was so busy busting up in laughter that they almost killed us all, because we just couldn't take it seriously.   My wife's reaction when I told her later was "Squids are SALT-WATER critters!"  (we'd seen enough goofy stuff that THIS was what offended her).

Mostly you get mediocre in two of the three, but one of them good, and that is also pretty fun.  (and if the players are mediocre, well, you're part of the problem.  Start injecting some fun!).  As long as it isn't actively bad, most gaming is a bit like a good meal or sex.  Even when it isn't great, it's pretty good.

Now in most games the GM is the author of the story, so a bad GM can kill a game pretty quick.  Fate doesn't have the crutch of pre-planned modules, because it doesn't lend itself to that (it has scenes that after the initial hook are pretty much determined by player actions in the first scene - at best the GM has some milestones and stuff he kind of wants the PC's to interact with, but in the end they drive things much more than D&D/Pathfinder).   This means the GM also has to be an author, and so do the players.  If either side of this equation breaks down, Fate can be pretty stale.   (see my other posts on the difficulties of running Fate in a convention setting, based on my anecdotal early experiences.  It can be done, but it's harder if the GM is unprepared or inexperienced with the fate economy, or if the pregens are poorly thought out)

I was an experienced GM but not with fate when I ran a Codex Alera adaption for one guy good at Fate, one with passing experience and two newbies.  We had fun because they were fans of the setting and I'm a decent GM, but I didn't give them enough aspects that fit the scenes well on the character sheet or in the scenes themselves, and we didn't use the fate economy very well (this adaption was like DFRPG though in that the non-fate add-ons were strong enough the flavor got through, even if the aspects were weak, which is probably why it worked)

I'm an experienced player, but had an inexperienced GM and a tired, cranky table using stock Spirit of the Century characters when I had a bad experience playing.  I didn't understand my character, ran dry on fate points and got taken out in the firs encounter, got no help from anyone on the table using the aspect mechanics in terms of compels from GM and other players, was playing a social pilot in a scenario mostly underground and with nobody to talk to, so had little help from the skills part of my character sheet either.

I salvaged that game experience for myself on a break by just getting my head right and loosening up and looking for ways to chew on scenery to have some fun (which in Fate, tends to work well).  In the climactic scene I used my "fear of flying" consequences from the first encounter to hose a bunch of flying enemy psychic things that had latched into my brain, and the "spirit of freedom" high concept to judo the BBEG who thought that me letting him into my head to do the fear thing would get me to become a thrall.

Running DFRPG here is really helping a lot to have this all sink in, although I'm not totally clear on the pacing of the fate economy.  My players are mostly accumulating fate points while coping with various challenges, and we'll see how well I did when they reach the climax of this milestone - I've got that worked out, but I've got a lot less feel for how it'd go than in a normal game, given how compels and invocations can suddenly shift the situation.   One really nice thing though is that the city building effort gave me a ton of stuff to work with when responding to their actions and looking for conflicts and challenges.  The world building I usually have to do to GM my own scenario is mostly covered by the Dresden setting + city/character building, the rest fills in during play.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 01:43:41 PM by solbergb »

Offline RexQuondamRexqueFuturus

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Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2014, 03:22:14 PM »
I love Fate and DFRPG in general. I have been playing pen and paper RPGs for about 20 years and this is the first one I have truly fallen in love with. I have played several editions of D&D, Shadowrun, Gurps, Pathfinder,  LOTR, Dark Heresy, Vampire the Masquerade,  and so on.

It has enough crunch that rules lawyers and power gamers can shine,  but, the built-in mechanics let a less combat oriented character really shine too. I love aspects and declarations. It rewards creativity and role playing. I just can't seem to get back into any other systems right now. I would love to introduce some of the other groups I play with to DFRPG. It is a blast.