Author Topic: Fixing Recovery powers.  (Read 6658 times)

Offline Belial666

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Fixing Recovery powers.
« on: June 26, 2014, 03:14:15 AM »
I've always seen Recovery as really weak compared to the other physical powers. For example, Inhuman Recovery allows you to get rid of 2 stress worth of consequence, once per scene, for a supplemental action. Inhuman Toughness effectively reduces stress by 1 from every attack and gives you 2 extra stress boxes that could hold a 5 and 6 stress hit AND it takes no action to use. Inhuman Speed increases your chance to dodge attacks by 30% at least, and gives you an equally better chance to do Athletics maneuvers, and makes you faster, and gives you combat mobility without penalties, and gives you a stealth bonus. The differences become more pronounced at higher levels of ability. Thus, I decided to make a rewrite of the Recovery powers;

[-2] Inhuman Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Fast Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 1 physical stress, emptying your first stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark one step to the left. Alternatively, once per 2 exchanges you may heal a mild physical consequence.
Improved Endurance: you recover faster than normal. You may miss a few days of sleep without negative effects, and higher-level consequences recover as if they were one step less severe.

[-4] Supernatural Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Rapid Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 2 physical stress, emptying your first or second stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark two steps to the left. Alternatively, once per exchange you may heal a mild physical consequence.
Supernatural Endurance: you recover much faster than normal. You may miss a couple weeks of sleep without negative effects, and higher-level consequences recover as if they were two steps less severe.

[-6] Mythic Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Extreme Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 3 physical stress, emptying your first, second or third stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark three steps to the left. Alternatively, once per exchange you may heal two mild physical consequences.
Extreme Endurance: you recover at fantastic speeds. You never get tired or exhausted, and all consequences except extreme recover by the beginning of the next scene.

[-8] Legendary Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Instantaneous Recovery: you recover from any physical stress immediately after each blow. Unless a blow deals consequences or takes you out, don't bother noting it down.
Boundless Endurance: you never get tired or exhausted, not even from hostile or magical effects that would force you to be so. At the end of each exchange, you may recover from a physical consequence other than extreme. At the end of each scene, you may recover from an extreme physical consequence, including death. The only way you can be stopped is total bodily destruction (merely tearing you to pieces won't cut it) or exposure to lasting damage or force (such as being impaled or crushed by falling boulders and the source of harm not removed for a prolonged time)

Offline PirateJack

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1843
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 03:52:00 AM »
The Recovery powers aren't weak, they're just not designed for combat situations.

Recovery powers are meant to be used over the course of a few battles, gradually whittling the enemy down while you heal and are ready to fight before their consequences are healed.

I mean, Supernatural Recovery gives you the ability to get rid of everything but an extreme consequence the scene after you take them. So while regular folks are still suffering from the Concussion (Moderate Physical Consequence) you inflicted on them, you're fully healed up and ready for round two. If you take up the harassment angle, you're able to stay awake for a lot longer than they are as well. So it'd go Fight Scene - Recovery Scene - Fight - Recovery - Fight (Exhausted Enemy) - Recovery - Fight (Oh God Make It Stop) - Recovery, and so on.

It's a pretty effective way of modelling the Dresden Files in general, actually. Harry never goes into the climactic boss scene without a few consequences, mostly accrued because of various mooks that have managed to ninja star him into submission.
Quote from: JoeC
"Why are you banging your head against the wall?
'cause it feels sooooo good when I stop..."

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 04:33:33 AM »
You think Recovery is underpowered?

This is a joke, right?

Offline Locnil

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1303
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 05:49:08 AM »
Recovery is one of those powers that are much better on PCs than NPCs. That said, this isn't necessarily something that must be fixed, unlike the inverse situation.

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9859
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 12:56:15 PM »
I take recovery before toughness when it comes down to a choice between the two

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 02:36:18 PM »
I find recovery powers much more broadly useful than toughness. Toughness has such a brief utility, while recovery means you're always back in the fight before anybody else. This is especially useful if you run a big climactic battle as a sequence of separate conflicts. Doing so makes each stage of the battle a different scene, so if you have recovery powers, you have a distinct advantage.

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 04:52:00 PM »
For once I'm in total agreement with Sanctaphrax. Recovery is extremely useful in a textual and metatextual sense. Even the lowest level means anything but Extreme consequences go away within a session, and at high levels Severe consequences are gone instantly -- a shotgun blast to the chest has healed up almost before you even hit the floor.

And on a metatext level, it means the player is going to go all out more; I have one player who used to spend the lion's share of his fate points avoiding hits, then he took a recovery power and he's letting himself get hammered left and right because he knows he'll be fine soon enough anyway.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Belial666

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 05:40:08 PM »
Eh? Toughness powers and Speed Powers could absorb way more stress per fight than Recovery powers. Here's a rather extreme example of three combatants;

Combatant A has Mythic Recovery, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant B has Mythic Speed, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant C has Mythic Toughness, superb athletics and OOOO(OOOOOO) armor 3 stress.

Over the course of an average campaign against multiple enemies they are attacked by, in separate fights;
a) 20x weapon 2 attack +3 thugs using pistols.
b) 10x weapon 5 attack +5 inhumanly strong warrior using a sword.
c) 4x weapon 8 attack +8 wizard with a spell.

Combatant A takes 4 hits in fight a, enters fight b fully recovered and takes 5 hits he has to use all his consequences on to survive, enters fight c fully recovered and dies at the third or fourth wizard spell unless he takes an extreme.
Combatant B is never hit in fight a, is never hit in fight B if he uses a maneuver or two, and has 50% chance to survive in fight c.
Combatant C ignores all hits from fight a, tanks the hits from fight b easily, and tanks the hits from fight c easily.



As you can see, the ability of Recovery powers to enter each fight fully healed is pretty much shared between the three defensive abilities in the game. Given a fight where a guy with recovery won't die, another guy with the same level of speed won't be hit enough to take consequences and a guy with toughness will tank the hits without taking consequences better than either speed or recovery.

So, how exactly is Recovery better for multiple subsequent fights?

Offline bobjob

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1433
  • Bier, ja? Und mit Dusen-Dusen? Ja!
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 05:42:44 PM »
Recovery powers are FP generators. Take a few consequences, get a few FPs, and clear out the consequences in a scene or two (depending on the level you buy).

Then when you get to that really tough fight, cash in your FPs to help avoid hits so you're not taken out as easily.
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

Playing:
Shale Buckby

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9859
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 05:45:00 PM »
Recovery powers are FP generators. Take a few consequences, get a few FPs, and clear out the consequences in a scene or two (depending on the level you buy).

Then when you get to that really tough fight, cash in your FPs to help avoid hits so you're not taken out as easily.

You only gain those FP's if you concede the conflict, though.

Offline Belial666

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 05:46:46 PM »
Yep. And if you lose a conflict to the typical dark powers in the Dresdenverse...

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 06:09:25 PM »
Eh? Toughness powers and Speed Powers could absorb way more stress per fight than Recovery powers. Here's a rather extreme example of three combatants;

Combatant A has Mythic Recovery, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant B has Mythic Speed, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant C has Mythic Toughness, superb athletics and OOOO(OOOOOO) armor 3 stress.

Over the course of an average campaign against multiple enemies they are attacked by, in separate fights;
a) 20x weapon 2 attack +3 thugs using pistols.
b) 10x weapon 5 attack +5 inhumanly strong warrior using a sword.
c) 4x weapon 8 attack +8 wizard with a spell.

Combatant A takes 4 hits in fight a, enters fight b fully recovered and takes 5 hits he has to use all his consequences on to survive, enters fight c fully recovered and dies at the third or fourth wizard spell unless he takes an extreme.
Combatant B is never hit in fight a, is never hit in fight B if he uses a maneuver or two, and has 50% chance to survive in fight c.
Combatant C ignores all hits from fight a, tanks the hits from fight b easily, and tanks the hits from fight c easily.



As you can see, the ability of Recovery powers to enter each fight fully healed is pretty much shared between the three defensive abilities in the game. Given a fight where a guy with recovery won't die, another guy with the same level of speed won't be hit enough to take consequences and a guy with toughness will tank the hits without taking consequences better than either speed or recovery.

So, how exactly is Recovery better for multiple subsequent fights?
I have a problem with these scenarios, starting with their implausibility.

The first two scenarios, generally speaking, are just not going to happen. I've never had a conflict where one character took 20 or 10 attacks unless it was an absurdly tough boss, with good defenses, at least Supernatural Toughness and, most importantly, the players hadn't figured out their weakness.

There's also the ability to recover from mild consequences mid-fight. The guy with Recovery, in fact, has 6 consequences he can use up before Extreme, 7 if he has high Endurance. And if Character B is making maneuvers, presumably so is the Recovery guy.

It's also discounting play styles in such a way as to weight the examples toward the guys with speed and toughness. An enemy wizard who's up against someone with Mythic Toughness will find and use his weakness if it's even remotely possible (or, just as likely, use three of his four spells as maneuvers to boost one last big one).
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 06:34:32 PM by Mr. Death »
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline bobjob

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1433
  • Bier, ja? Und mit Dusen-Dusen? Ja!
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 06:14:55 PM »
You only gain those FP's if you concede the conflict, though.

True, and how often does Harry get beaten up and have to concede? Now that he's got a Recovery power, he's got a lot more staying power in the long run because it frees up consequences quicker. When you finally get to the logical end game of a story, he's got plenty of FPs to toss around and consequence slots that are free because they've healed quicker over the course of the story.
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

Playing:
Shale Buckby

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 06:28:52 PM »
It's way more fun to concede several times over the course of a story arc, and save the smackdown for the finalé!

Offline bobjob

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1433
  • Bier, ja? Und mit Dusen-Dusen? Ja!
    • View Profile
Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 06:41:09 PM »
It's way more fun to concede several times over the course of a story arc, and save the smackdown for the finalé!

Couldn't agree more.
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

Playing:
Shale Buckby