Running water

[dplanken]

What does running water do to thaumathurgy? For example, the wardens sometimes throw big veils over buildings (using thaumathurgy). What would happen if it was a very rainy day? Does running water effect thaumathurgy at all, or is it just evocation?

[blackstaff67]

For my money, Running Water might ground out a temporary spell (even wards and such), but would have no effect on things with permanent effects or changes--which is why most wizards and the like make their homes bullet-proof, up to and including the windows.  I must confess Wards are iffy, cos the idea of going to great trouble to protect a domicile only to have it brought down by rain sucks.  I think Harry had wards up in Storm Front and other books without worrying about rainwater.

[Haru]

Running water erodes any magic. Since evocation is happening instantly it is going to be in the rain when it happens, so the effect is much more obvious there. Thaumaturgy is just as much affected, though there is usually a lot more power or finesse in a thaumaturgy spell, that it lasts despite the rain. A bit of rain won't wash away a ward, and it is just one of many eroding effects on lasting magic. Like dusk and dawn. That's why thaumaturgy doesn't last indefinitely and has to be recast every now and again.

If the wardens are putting up a veil during heavy rain, they'll have to account for it, since it makes it harder to do magic. If they already put up the veil, and the rain threatens to wash it away, that's a great hook for a compel.

[toturi]

Running water do not erode all magic, it erodes most magic. It'd be funny if a magical jet of water washes out itself.

[Cadd]

I consider it more along the lines of "all natural water erodes magic".

[Mr. Death]

I think it's a question of scale--the kind of running water that might damper or shut down an evocation or a 5-shift ritual might not do anything to a serious 32-shift killing spell (Sells had no trouble firing off his heart-exploder during a rain/thunder storm, after all).

Think of evocation and low-powered thaumaturgy (like Harry's standard tracking spell) like a sandcastle--steady rain is enough to wreck them, or at least make them harder to keep up.

Higher power thaumaturgy is like a brick and mortar wall. Water is only going to take it down either A. over a long period of sustained erosion, or B. if it's one of those high-pressure cutting things.

So one way to adjudicate it is to treat it like a block on all magic in the area, or a block on controlling power. Something like a light rainstorm might be a 3-shift block--enough to make it difficult if you're not dealing with a lot of power. A fast-flowing river might be 5-10, depending on size; enough to break up a tracking spell, or keep a Black Court vampire from blowing past it with a Discipline or even Athletics roll.

[Mr. Ghostbuster]

Wards do not get washed away by rain because they are built into/onto a home's threshold. The same reason why thresholds aren't wiped away by the sunrise. They are constantly and continually being replenished by the simple act of people living in them.

[Haru]

Wards do not get washed away by rain because they are built into/onto a home's threshold. The same reason why thresholds aren't wiped away by the sunrise. They are constantly and continually being replenished by the simple act of people living in them.

I'm pretty sure they erode a little over time, by sunrise and water and a lot of other stuff. I think Harry says at various times that he has to maintain his wards and redo them every now and again. Probably nothing I'd play out in a game, but still, it happens. Binding it to a threshold might make the ward more resistant to this, but not immune.

A magical jet of water employs the water and is sort of a part of it. Also, it is usually not that much water to begin with. To shut down a wizard, it isn't enough to empty a bucket over him, as witnessed by Nick's treatment of Harry.

[Mr. Death]

I'm pretty sure they erode a little over time, by sunrise and water and a lot of other stuff. I think Harry says at various times that he has to maintain his wards and redo them every now and again. Probably nothing I'd play out in a game, but still, it happens. Binding it to a threshold might make the ward more resistant to this, but not immune.

Part of the reason Harry has to maintain and redo his wards is because he's a single guy living in a rented bachelor pad. Building a ward on, for example, the Carpenters' threshold, would likely require a lot less maintenance.

[dplanken]

It seems the water effecting magic is very situational and up to the GM then. In that case I'll simply go with what is most fun for the story.

[MadAlchemist]

I have always used running water as a standard aspect. Tag it to resist casters or compel magical effects to fail.

[toturi]

I consider it more along the lines of "all natural water erodes magic".

The events in Even Hand seems to imply running mundane(as in not magically manipulated or created) water doesn't work against Fomor magic.

[Cadd]

I've unfortunately not read Even Hand yet (dang it Butcher - get to compiling your non-Side Jobs short stories!) but I'd make that a special property of Fomor magic rather than apply that to other magic aswell...

[Mojosilver]

I have been wondering how/if snow could effect magic. 

[PirateJack]

I have been wondering how/if snow could effect magic. 

Small Favor had Harry's magic working perfectly fine during a blizzard, so it probably doesn't do much. Proven Guilty had a fire sapping blizzard, but that was at Arctis Tor.