Author Topic: The Black Staff  (Read 4766 times)

Offline bobjob

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The Black Staff
« on: August 14, 2013, 05:13:49 PM »
As I prepare for my next session, I wanted to share the Black Staff I created that will be in use. I built this as a sink for Fate Points, essentially subverting the will of the wielder, which I think plays much more nicely into the corrupting nature of black magic (especially where I think the actual staff comes from based on Cold Days and a WOJ I read somewhere).

THE BLACK STAFF (-3 if you already have Evocation and Thaumaturgy, or -5 if you do not)
Description:
You possess the Black Staff, a powerful magical focus that aids in corrupting the fundamental forces of nature. It will also protect from the backlash of those actions... for a price. Currently both an office and an item of power, the Senior Council has deemed this a necessary but secret evil to protect the world against foes that would use the Laws of Magic against them.
Musts: You must have a high concept that represents either the item or both the Office of the Black Staff and the item itself.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Discipline, Lore
Effects:
Karma Indulgence (reskinned All Are Equal Before God). The item known as the Black Staff is a force of natural entropy and is useful for that purpose; whether it's causing or perverting death, breaking minds, transforming to break or destroy, subverting time, or seeking beyond the natural world, it will absorb the consequences of such actions... for a price. When casting a spell that would violate one of the Laws of Magic, the wielder of the Black Staff may spend a fate point to ignore the Lawbreaker stunt for one particular law for the duration of the scene. If a new law is broken in that same scene and the wielder wishes protection from that, then a new fate point must be spent.
All Things Are Made To Broken (Sponsored Magic). This is a power conduit to more easily break the Laws of Magic and can only be used for that purpose. Benefits: Standard sponsored magic benefits. It also provides +1 to the power or complexity threshold on any spell intended to break a law of magic. It doesn't particularly care for the consequences of said actions and any backlash is flavored as dark tendrils drilling into the arm of the wielder.
It is what it is: A short staff made of gnarled wood. Shadowy power emanates from it.
One time discount: +2
Unbreakable

**Update: It looks like My Dark Sunshine did this exact same design, modeling it on a Sword of the Cross like I did. I found it like three seconds after I hit the submit button. Now I feel sad.

**Update 2: Grr, we even built ours almost exactly alike. The only real difference is the wording and the fact Sunshine's version provides blanket Lawbreaker armor against all Lawbreaker spells in a scene for one fate point instead of one for each law (like mine). You can see his/her well written example here
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:20:11 PM by bobjob »
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

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Offline PatchR

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 11:02:56 PM »
It wouldn't corrupt nature/magic... it's Mother Winter's Staff, and therefore wholly party to nature.
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Offline vultur

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2013, 03:28:03 AM »
Here's what I'd do -

Blackstaff [-?]
It Is What It Is. It's a gnarled wooden staff that seems somehow semi-living. Weapon:1, if you hit someone with it.
Indestructible.
Black Magic Eater. Whenever you would otherwise be forced to take a Lawbreaker stunt while holding the Blackstaff, you instead suffer a (Weapon:0) mental attack at Legendary.
No Item of Power Discount [+0]. The Blackstaff can be summoned to the hand of its bearer instantaneously, regardless of distance or even the barrier between the Nevernever and the mortal world.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2013, 05:31:46 AM »
Huh. I should probably add the Blackstaff to the IoP list.

Not sure which version I should add, though. All of them, maybe?

Might be tricky to get permission from some of those guys in the other thread, since they might not still be around.

Anyway...

Here's what I'd do -

Blackstaff [-?]
It Is What It Is. It's a gnarled wooden staff that seems somehow semi-living. Weapon:1, if you hit someone with it.
Indestructible.
Black Magic Eater. Whenever you would otherwise be forced to take a Lawbreaker stunt while holding the Blackstaff, you instead suffer a (Weapon:0) mental attack at Legendary.
No Item of Power Discount [+0]. The Blackstaff can be summoned to the hand of its bearer instantaneously, regardless of distance or even the barrier between the Nevernever and the mortal world.

I'd call that a -0 item, personally.

THE BLACK STAFF (-3 if you already have Evocation and Thaumaturgy, or -5 if you do not)
Description:
You possess the Black Staff, a powerful magical focus that aids in corrupting the fundamental forces of nature. It will also protect from the backlash of those actions... for a price. Currently both an office and an item of power, the Senior Council has deemed this a necessary but secret evil to protect the world against foes that would use the Laws of Magic against them.
Musts: You must have a high concept that represents either the item or both the Office of the Black Staff and the item itself.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Discipline, Lore
Effects:
Karma Indulgence (reskinned All Are Equal Before God). The item known as the Black Staff is a force of natural entropy and is useful for that purpose; whether it's causing or perverting death, breaking minds, transforming to break or destroy, subverting time, or seeking beyond the natural world, it will absorb the consequences of such actions... for a price. When casting a spell that would violate one of the Laws of Magic, the wielder of the Black Staff may spend a fate point to ignore the Lawbreaker stunt for one particular law for the duration of the scene. If a new law is broken in that same scene and the wielder wishes protection from that, then a new fate point must be spent.
All Things Are Made To Broken (Sponsored Magic). This is a power conduit to more easily break the Laws of Magic and can only be used for that purpose. Benefits: Standard sponsored magic benefits. It also provides +1 to the power or complexity threshold on any spell intended to break a law of magic. It doesn't particularly care for the consequences of said actions and any backlash is flavored as dark tendrils drilling into the arm of the wielder.
It is what it is: A short staff made of gnarled wood. Shadowy power emanates from it.
One time discount: +2
Unbreakable

Hm. I'm kind of iffy on the idea of spending Refresh to avoid the Laws. Non-humans get that bonus for free.

Not sure how this is based on the Swords...it doesn't seem that similar.

I like the idea of using a Sponsored Magic, but I think you should explain how the Blackstaff's Sponsored Magic works a bit more. What do its spells look like? What evothaum does it allow?

Offline Hick Jr

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 06:45:57 AM »
*Wild SPONSORED MAGIC PRO appears!*

It should probably allow for any Evothaum that breaks the Laws. Evocations and Thaumaturgy should probably do the same thing. The extra benefit should let you ignore the Lawbreaker stunts for the cost of a mild consequence or a FP.
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Offline vultur

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2013, 01:44:14 AM »
I made my version the way it is because the "does the Blackstaff have any powers relating to the dead" WoJ sort of implies it doesn't have any powers beyond anti-black-magic-corruption.

I've suggested the Sponsored Magic solution in the past, I think, but that was before I knew about that WoJ (which, admittedly, isn't a 100% straight answer, so... still some leeway.)

 But if it did give you Sponsored Magic it would probably be (CD Spoiler)
(click to show/hide)

Offline vultur

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 06:13:12 AM »


I'd call that a -0 item, personally.

Hm. I'm kind of iffy on the idea of spending Refresh to avoid the Laws. Non-humans get that bonus for free.

I'm not sure this really applies to anything PCable (by default assumptions). White Courts and Red Court Infected, etc. are stated to not get lawbreaker for mental control by their innate abilities, but that's not spellcasting.

Everything that's in "Types and Templates" has a human soul, so it's at least not obvious to me that any of them would be immune to lawbreaker if they had spellcasting. (Sponsored Magic lawbreaker is a whole other argument ... but I'd certainly say a whampire or  nixie changeling who can get away with Incite Emotion would still incur lawbreaker if they also had Thaumaturgy and used that for mind control.)

Offline Troy

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 01:56:55 PM »
I'm not sure this really applies to anything PCable (by default assumptions). White Courts and Red Court Infected, etc. are stated to not get lawbreaker for mental control by their innate abilities, but that's not spellcasting.

Everything that's in "Types and Templates" has a human soul, so it's at least not obvious to me that any of them would be immune to lawbreaker if they had spellcasting. (Sponsored Magic lawbreaker is a whole other argument ... but I'd certainly say a whampire or  nixie changeling who can get away with Incite Emotion would still incur lawbreaker if they also had Thaumaturgy and used that for mind control.)

That's an interesting take on things. Do you have any posts in any of the Laws threads above that help to flesh out your point of view on this? I'd be interested in learning more.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 07:14:15 PM »
I'm not sure this really applies to anything PCable (by default assumptions). White Courts and Red Court Infected, etc. are stated to not get lawbreaker for mental control by their innate abilities, but that's not spellcasting.

True.

But NPCs are built along the same rules as PCs, and they don't spend Refresh on avoiding Lawbreaker.

And mechanically, things work better if you don't have to spend Refresh to break the Laws.

Offline vultur

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 01:49:50 AM »
That's an interesting take on things. Do you have any posts in any of the Laws threads above that help to flesh out your point of view on this? I'd be interested in learning more.

No, it just occurred to me as I read this thread.

But I certainly could expand on it in the Law Talk thread if you wanted...

True.

But NPCs are built along the same rules as PCs, and they don't spend Refresh on avoiding Lawbreaker.

Well, sure, but NPCs don't care whether they're positive or negative refresh, so it really is a wash for NPCs - if they don't get Lawbreaker, they don't get its benefits either.

PCs, not so much, since they can't go negative.

Quote
And mechanically, things work better if you don't have to spend Refresh to break the Laws.
Can you expand on that?

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 06:14:53 AM »
Having to spend Refresh on Lawbreaker if you break a Law is a problem for a few reasons. In no particular order...

-It removes the possibility of a Lawbreaking storyline for most spellcasters, since most casters only have 1 Refresh. If they break a Law, you can't play them any more.

-It handicaps people who play Harry-like characters. Harry's First Lawbreaker is a total waste of Refresh, and it makes him weaker than a Submerged character is supposed to be.

-It makes the Laws too scary. We see a lot of debates about what the Laws are here in the RPG section of the forum. That used to puzzle me, since the Laws aren't actually an RPG thing. But since having your Refresh taken away is so scary, the Lawbreaker rules make people treat the Laws quasi-religiously.

-It encourages people to use the Laws as a club with which to punish "unbalanced" actions. This is a bad idea and the laws don't work well for that.

A non-free Power that lets you dodge the Laws is an outgrowth of the mandatory-Power-purchase rule, and that's bad.

Offline bobjob

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 07:47:57 PM »
Hmm, ok. If actual shadowy staff that Ebenezzar used in Changes was
(click to show/hide)
then I need to start thinking of something mechanically that would work and try to make it different than the standard sponsored magic for that court based more along the themes of the original owner. It's possible the staff itself doesn't provide any protection from the Laws.

Here's a thought though and it's possible it's covered in existing Laws threads so I'd have to look it over, but would spells cast using Sponsored Magic invoke some kind of lawbreaker? I would probably say Yes, although the magic is coming from another source.
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Offline bobjob

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 11:41:36 PM »
Thank you Sancta. You seem to be able to pull those out of thin air at the drop of a hat.

I'm going to change around my initial concept. No actual physical Black Staff for the job title. The Black Staff suffers just as everybody else. But with my House Ruled interpretation of Sponsored Magic (seen below), he can pull of one useful trick for his job using this item.

Since the laws and how they correlate with Sponsored Magic seem a little ambiguous at best and open to lots of interpretation (well, you could either take one side or the other it seems), I'm going to opt to House rule this and be done with it. If you use the Sponsored Magic to buff your own spell using your own foci and inherent bonuses from taking evocation or thaumaturgy or refinements, then you incur the Law. If you cast just using the Sponsored Magic and it is thematically inline with the sponsor's goals, you do not incur the Law. This makes it potentially less powerful since a mortal practitioner does not get all of the bonuses from evocation or thaumaturgy foci or inherent power or control bonuses, although I do guess they could create foci specifically to channel the sponsored magic easier. I'll burn that bridge if it ever comes up in my game.

I do realize this may seem broken to some, but I'm not really up for getting into a laws debate. Those degrade too quickly into people's interpretations. This is just my house rule for it.

Atropos' Cane (-3 if you already have Evocation and Thaumaturgy, or -5 if you do not)
Description:
You possess Atropos' Cane, a powerful magical artifact of a goddess of death.
Musts: You must have a concept that represents the item.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Discipline, Lore
Effects:
The Power of Death. Sponsored Magic from the DFRPG Resource Wiki (here: http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Sponsored+Magics). The power of death at your command.
Sacrificial Lamb. You may take either Mental or Physical stress when using the power of the cane. Physical stress and consequences are always flavored as black shadowy tendrils running into your arm, sapping your vitality. Any physical or mental stress incurred by using this item always satisfies the catch of any toughness or recovery powers.
It is what it is: A short staff made of gnarled wood. Shadowy power emanates from it. Weapon:1 wielded like a club (it's not quite big enough for Weapon:2.)
No Item of Power Discount. +0. Atropos' Cane can be summoned to the hand of its bearer instantaneously, regardless of distance or even the barrier between the NeverNever and the mortal world.
Unbreakable
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 12:16:07 AM by bobjob »
The entire Red Court was taken down by the new Winter Knight? From the lowliest pawn all the way up to the King? *puts on sunglasses* Knight to G7. Check mate.

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Offline vultur

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Re: The Black Staff
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 01:33:15 AM »
Having to spend Refresh on Lawbreaker if you break a Law is a problem for a few reasons. In no particular order...

-It removes the possibility of a Lawbreaking storyline for most spellcasters, since most casters only have 1 Refresh. If they break a Law, you can't play them any more.

-It handicaps people who play Harry-like characters. Harry's First Lawbreaker is a total waste of Refresh, and it makes him weaker than a Submerged character is supposed to be.

Good points....

Quote
-It makes the Laws too scary. We see a lot of debates about what the Laws are here in the RPG section of the forum. That used to puzzle me, since the Laws aren't actually an RPG thing. But since having your Refresh taken away is so scary, the Lawbreaker rules make people treat the Laws quasi-religiously.

...but I think the Laws really are supposed to be that scary.