Author Topic: Newbies ask the darnest things  (Read 48661 times)

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #60 on: July 04, 2013, 02:20:47 PM »
On Exhibit A: Because the player created the aspect, they can use their free tag to compel the NPC to be unable to give orders. The NPC gets a Fate Point, but the player doesn't have to spend any for that first use. Aspects never have an effect on dice rolls or characters' behaviour and actions unless invoked, tagged, or compelled.

Removing the aspect depends on how well the player rolled to put it on the NPC in the first place (you did have him roll for it, right?). If he rolled just equal to the NPC's Discipline roll to defend, then the aspect is removed automatically after the first tag. Essentially in this case it would mean the sand is coughed out quickly. If, however, the player rolled above the NPC's Discipline roll, the aspect is "sticky," meaning it doesn't go away until some action is taken to deal with it.

In this case, that could mean a number of things, from the NPC stopping to cough up the sand, receiving the Heimlich Maneuver, or some other action that would unblock his windpipe. The difficulty to do this is up to you, depending on the circumstances. Out of combat, it typically shouldn't take anything other than time. In combat, for something simple (like throwing water over someone to remove the aspect "On Fire") no roll should be required, but for clearing a physical blockage in someone's throat, that might need a skill roll.

A good rule of thumb is, whenever you do call for a skill roll to remove an aspect, to set the difficulty at the same level as the result on the player's skill roll to place the aspect initially.

Re: blocks, you are correct, the player would have to continually apply the block in order to maintain the effect.

Exhibit B: In this case, the player could have simply treated the throw as a regular Fists attack, rather than using the grapple rules, especially if his goal was to hurt the NPC.

Players should be encouraged to think beyond the mindset that they need secondary beneficial effects to their actions. The only things that happen in a DFRPG game are the things that the players themselves choose to do. So, the player must decide whether they want to inflict stress, place an aspect, or perform a block. How they then describe that is up to them, but can absolutely include description to the effect of throwing someone against a wall, if they choose.

As for the aspect you chose to apply, yes doing so was specifically against the rules, and not exactly in keeping with the paradigm, either. Temporary aspects in combat are only applied to characters through maneuvers and consequences. You don't get to impose an aspect as a bonus to a different action.

An aspect like "Spread-Eagle on the Floor" is kind of poor, because the only way for it to remain in effect is to continually compel the NPC to remain on the ground, unable to get up. It's perfectly rules-legal, but you're players are going to burn a lot of Fate Points and he's going to quickly build up enough that he can buy off the compel and still be sitting pretty on a nice stack of points to spend against them.

If he stands up, the aspect is gone. No difficulty, no dice roll.

If you want to represent a character being at a disadvantage due to a maneuver, you're better off coming up with one that describes a more general condition. Something like "thrown off balance" is good, because it doesn't inherently suggest that a character can't act, but it's still an aspect that can be reasonably tagged, invoked or compelled to create difficulty for the character.

But remember, aspects like that are inflicted through the use of maneuvers only. The only time an attack can inflict an aspect is when the character chooses to take consequences.

If you want a character to be put in a situation where their ability to take action is more seriously impacted, you're better off using a block.

Offline dplanken

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2013, 12:28:44 PM »
Some random questions and situations I've been struggeling with that I hope someone can help me with. Don't worry about answering them all, if you can even answer a single one I'm a happy girl.

1. Are all Sidhe immortal?

2. Can Sidhe harm mortals without cause or connection, or are they not allowed like the Faerie Queens are not. And what about regular faeries like ogres and trolls.

3. Any ideas for non faerie-monsters that aren't vampires or ghouls?

4. When a manoever has been placed and the person who has been affected chooses to spend his action to remove it. Does he have to beat the difficulty of when it was placed, or does the person who placed it get to "defend" to keep the manoever in place.

5. How do you deal with the party splitting up, and one person entering a physical conflict away from the others. Physical conflict usually lasts pretty long, and the others will get bored waiting for it.

6. I've discovered that as a GM I'm struggeling with finding good compels during a session. I maybe compel each character once per session, and usually for something that isn't that cool to the story. Does anyone have tips for me to compel characters more often?

7. What kind of situations/scenarios are good to let a knowledge focused character shine? One who doesn't have social/battle skills (he's a true believer). Getting information is usually resolved in a single roll while conflicts get much more screen time.

8. I have followed the rules in YS about scaling the opposition. But even when the opposition is much stronger than my player's characters, they fly through conflicts without so much as a consequence on them. I don't get it, what am I doing wrong?

That's it, sorry for so many questions! I hope you guys understand!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 12:31:32 PM by dplanken »

Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2013, 01:03:27 PM »
WCV's popping in and out of the Nevernever at strip clubs and such would, IMO, be a temporary power gained by invoking their high concept or scene aspect.

Swift Transition only works for you. Worldwalker let's you open a portal that anyone reasonably close to can also use.  The difference is Swift Transition is something you can use without a skill roll and as often as you want.  Worldwalker requires a skill roll and is limited in the number of uses it has per scene. 

Neither is specifically better, but Worldwalker is more of a PC power.  It lets you bring your group and has limits which wouldn't really matter to NPCs.  Swift Transition looks to be designed as an NPC ability.  It works whenever, but only for one creature.

Offline Taran

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2013, 01:22:42 PM »
Some random questions and situations I've been struggeling with that I hope someone can help me with. Don't worry about answering them all, if you can even answer a single one I'm a happy girl.

1. Are all Sidhe immortal?

2. Can Sidhe harm mortals without cause or connection, or are they not allowed like the Faerie Queens are not. And what about regular faeries like ogres and trolls.

3. Any ideas for non faerie-monsters that aren't vampires or ghouls?

4. When a manoever has been placed and the person who has been affected chooses to spend his action to remove it. Does he have to beat the difficulty of when it was placed, or does the person who placed it get to "defend" to keep the manoever in place.

5. How do you deal with the party splitting up, and one person entering a physical conflict away from the others. Physical conflict usually lasts pretty long, and the others will get bored waiting for it.

6. I've discovered that as a GM I'm struggeling with finding good compels during a session. I maybe compel each character once per session, and usually for something that isn't that cool to the story. Does anyone have tips for me to compel characters more often?

7. What kind of situations/scenarios are good to let a knowledge focused character shine? One who doesn't have social/battle skills (he's a true believer). Getting information is usually resolved in a single roll while conflicts get much more screen time.

8. I have followed the rules in YS about scaling the opposition. But even when the opposition is much stronger than my player's characters, they fly through conflicts without so much as a consequence on them. I don't get it, what am I doing wrong?

That's it, sorry for so many questions! I hope you guys understand!

1.  Dunno.  probably not?

2. I think the lower on the totem pole you are, the more you can interact.  In one of the short stories a troll told Dresden that he was allowed to eat a little girl because the accords allowed it.  But I don't think the whole Queen thing has anything to do with the accords.  Short answer: I dunno

3.  demons, outsiders,

4. Both.  They have to beat the value of the maneuver, but if it's reasonable that someone can defend, they are allowed to do so.  Take the higher value of the two as the target number to remove the aspect.

5.  Compel other players to join or do it in snippets.  Run an exchange or two of combat, then spend some time rping the other PC's.  I find this is a common problem any time the party splits up - combat or no.  I usually just rotate through the different pc's, ending their bit with something they have to think on so they can use that time to figure out their next move.

6.  I usually have one or two character compels ready per session.  Some major/minor plot stuff for each character.  The rest is based on City aspects or maneuvers from opposition or scene aspects.  If the room is dark, compel the hell out of your players so that the story reflects that fact.  This drives the fp economy, I feel, and keeps it interesting.  Sometimes character aspects come into play, but they're trickier depending on the situation and the character - so make sure you keep a list of all your players aspects

7. extended conflicts where the  target number is high and he needs several rolls to get shifts to succeed.  Or, for combat, Creating aspects in advance that he can tag in a combat.  I have a high scholarship character who uses his iphone to google everything from legends to the layouts of public buildings (since they're often publically available) and he racks up tonnes of useful aspects in advance of a fight.

8.  I dunno.  I'm bad at this stuff as well.

Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2013, 01:32:33 PM »
Some random questions and situations I've been struggeling with that I hope someone can help me with. Don't worry about answering them all, if you can even answer a single one I'm a happy girl.

1. Are all Sidhe immortal?

2. Can Sidhe harm mortals without cause or connection, or are they not allowed like the Faerie Queens are not. And what about regular faeries like ogres and trolls.

3. Any ideas for non faerie-monsters that aren't vampires or ghouls?

4. When a manoever has been placed and the person who has been affected chooses to spend his action to remove it. Does he have to beat the difficulty of when it was placed, or does the person who placed it get to "defend" to keep the manoever in place.

5. How do you deal with the party splitting up, and one person entering a physical conflict away from the others. Physical conflict usually lasts pretty long, and the others will get bored waiting for it.

6. I've discovered that as a GM I'm struggeling with finding good compels during a session. I maybe compel each character once per session, and usually for something that isn't that cool to the story. Does anyone have tips for me to compel characters more often?

7. What kind of situations/scenarios are good to let a knowledge focused character shine? One who doesn't have social/battle skills (he's a true believer). Getting information is usually resolved in a single roll while conflicts get much more screen time.

8. I have followed the rules in YS about scaling the opposition. But even when the opposition is much stronger than my player's characters, they fly through conflicts without so much as a consequence on them. I don't get it, what am I doing wrong?

That's it, sorry for so many questions! I hope you guys understand!

1. Close enough to it that it doesn't matter if ageing is involved.  They can be killed though.
2. They're like the Queens, otherwise there would be no reason for the Knights.  They could just order a lesser Sidhe to do it.  This is not directly stated in the cannon as far as I can tell, however.  Regular fairies are tougher to say.  The Gruffs attack Michael's children, Malks attack everything, etc. so I'd probably say that they don't in cannon.  Or that minor reasons are commonplace enough that they might as well not.
3. I pull a lot from Greek myths in my game, with hydras, chimeras, etc.  You've also got Demons, ghosts, sasquaches, wedingos, chupachabras, and basically anything you've ever heard of in folklore, mythology, or urban legends.
4. I just have them have to meet the difficulty which it was placed at.  I like to eliminate as many extra dice rolls as I can to speed things up.
5. I switch scenes every couple turns.  So do a couple exchanges, then cut to what the rest of the group is doing, then cut back.  Kind of like a comic book or movie.
6. I don't have any advice for this.  Sorry.
7.  That's a tough one.  Generally I'd say make getting information more than a single skill roll.  Have a series of challenges that aren't strictly pass/fail but instead sway the overall outcome.  Example:  I want to know about this fairy.  One bit of research could be about the general abilities of this type of fairy, strengths and weaknesses, etc.  The other could be for information about this specific fairy or group, and include motivations or personality (Aspects), and finally I could research individuals who have come in contact with this fairy and their families.  These would use different skills (Lore, Contacts, Investigate, and Scholarship), or could use the same skill to create/discover different aspects which I could use to my advantage.  In combat, I let the amount of info they discover exist as aspects (so a Fair roll could generate one aspect, a Superb roll 2, etc) whose free tags can be used buy that individual or passed to the group.
8.  Refresh doesn't matter.  It's about potential combat skill.  If my group averages Fantastic attacks and defenses, then I'll need about the same number of creatures at around Superb to give them a combat they will win but will challenge them.  A smaller number of creatures at the same level will do about the same.  A good deal more two steps lower will be a bit more challenging, but unlikely to inflict harm unless they're using actions to help each other (maneuvers to make a couple really good attacks rather than several weak ones).  It's probably a mix of tactics and numbers that are causing this problem.  I had it too when I started.  I just made combats harder and always left an out if I screwed up.  Eventually you get a feel for it.  Extra stress boxes help if they're getting killed too early, as does having your monsters take consequences.  Avoid having the party going up against 1-2 big bads.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 01:36:56 PM by InFerrumVeritas »

Offline Troy

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2013, 05:23:41 PM »
What's the least amount of time it takes to cast a ritual using Thaumaturgy?

I brought up this question here and I'm satisfied with the answer, but wanted to get veteran players' take on the question. Looking for more insight, I guess. I adore crowdsourcing brains.
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2013, 05:42:00 PM »
What's the least amount of time it takes to cast a ritual using Thaumaturgy?
Probably a scene...which isn't very exact. 

How are you defining time?  Scenes and exchanges within the game?  Real world minutes and hours?  Or time taken in the emergent narrative?

Thaumaturgy relies heavily on Declarations.  They often take no time from a current scene which really leaves the number of exchanges it takes to draw and control power as your 'current game time' minimum.
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Offline Haru

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2013, 06:15:19 PM »
I'm going to go with "As long as it takes". Which is about the best and the worst answer I could give, I assume.

Let me elaborate. The time it takes to cast a spell is not always an important factor. If you've got the afternoon off, it doesn't really matter if the spell takes 2 seconds, minutes or hours, you'll have easily finished it in the time you have.

For casting a spell when you are under pressure, there are already rules for that. Just gather the shifts you need over the course of a few exchanges, and as long as you aren't interrupted or fudge up the roll, your spell works as planned.

For the SK spell you talk about in your link, the casting process doesn't even have to be part of the equation. The GM compels the "mind fog" scene aspect on Murphy and Harry. Murphy's player doesn't want to go to lala land, so she decides to buy the compel off. The GM asks her how that happens, and she says "Well, can't our wizard here do something?", and they decide that is a good idea. Harry's player doesn't have that many fate points to spare, so he accepts the compel. He'll still be able to fight against the mind fog invading him, but at times, that's going to take his full concentration, so he'll be way less effective in the ensuing conflict. Hell, he might even do something stupid like throwing marbles on the floor in order to stop an ogre.

The things that take time for any thaumaturgy spell is the preparation. Getting the right ingredients can be a session on its own, if you want it to be. Preparing the circle, making arcane calculations, ritual cleansing, meditating and what have you all (can) take time. But it always depends on what kind of spell you have, too. For Harry, it makes sense to have a quick tracking spell, that's his bread and butter, so he can do a spell like that with a rough chalk circle and a piece of string. Other wizards might need a lot more to do that, but they can make a tree grow with just an effort of will, for example.
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Offline Troy

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2013, 02:22:38 PM »
I'm going to go with "As long as it takes". Which is about the best and the worst answer I could give, I assume.

Let me elaborate. The time it takes to cast a spell is not always an important factor. If you've got the afternoon off, it doesn't really matter if the spell takes 2 seconds, minutes or hours, you'll have easily finished it in the time you have.

For casting a spell when you are under pressure, there are already rules for that. Just gather the shifts you need over the course of a few exchanges, and as long as you aren't interrupted or fudge up the roll, your spell works as planned.

For the SK spell you talk about in your link, the casting process doesn't even have to be part of the equation. The GM compels the "mind fog" scene aspect on Murphy and Harry. Murphy's player doesn't want to go to lala land, so she decides to buy the compel off. The GM asks her how that happens, and she says "Well, can't our wizard here do something?", and they decide that is a good idea. Harry's player doesn't have that many fate points to spare, so he accepts the compel. He'll still be able to fight against the mind fog invading him, but at times, that's going to take his full concentration, so he'll be way less effective in the ensuing conflict. Hell, he might even do something stupid like throwing marbles on the floor in order to stop an ogre.

The things that take time for any thaumaturgy spell is the preparation. Getting the right ingredients can be a session on its own, if you want it to be. Preparing the circle, making arcane calculations, ritual cleansing, meditating and what have you all (can) take time. But it always depends on what kind of spell you have, too. For Harry, it makes sense to have a quick tracking spell, that's his bread and butter, so he can do a spell like that with a rough chalk circle and a piece of string. Other wizards might need a lot more to do that, but they can make a tree grow with just an effort of will, for example.

Interesting. What about the same scene in Summer Knight Harry considered escaping via a portal to the Nevernever. If that were an in-game situation that sort of ritual would not have taken longer than the exchanges needed to summon up the power to do that?
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Offline Haru

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2013, 02:48:15 PM »
Well, it depends on how you run it. If it is like I said above, a compel for both players, and both players decide to buy out of the compel, the escape to the nevernever could just be the way you narrate the buy out. Or they don't buy out but rephrase the compel so that they escape to the nevernever, where the really nasty surprise waits. Again, no roll required, it just happens as part of the agreement of the compel.

Or, if there is no compel involved, you could do it as a cat and mouse contest. Both parties roll a number of times (say 3 for this example), and whoever has more shifts at the end wins the contest. If Harry and Murphy win, they escape to the nevernever. If the Winter agents win, Harry and Murphy don't have to be caught, but they could be forced to fight, because Harry wasn't quick enough to open the door. Or he managed to open the door, but they weren't able to make it through and are now cut off from the opening. The next scene, they have to fight their way to the opening through their opponents.
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Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2013, 02:48:41 PM »
Time Increments extrapolated from RAW:
At best, a ritual takes a few minutes to set up.  Obviously rituals can take hours, etc, but you asked for the shortest period of time.
An exchange is likely "a few moments" to "half a minute" in most combat scenarios.  We'll use "half a minute" because it makes the numbers easier.

If a character wants to cast a ritual during combat, I increase the complexity by 2 because "half a minute" is two steps higher on the time chart than "a few minutes".  This is only to set up the ritual (and requires no roll).  Any maneuvers they need to take to increase their complexity take an exchange. 
When it comes to summoning power, each time they have to roll to control the power is one exchange.

This was the QAD system I've come up with for my games, as thaumaturgy in combat has come up a surprising amount.  If they don't want to increase the complexity, I have it take 3 exchanges to set up the ritual (+1 for each point needed, essentially, although my players haven't caught on to that). 

Really, having it cost a potion slot and happen in one exchange is a more efficient method, mechanically.

Offline Troy

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2013, 10:02:26 PM »
When you cast an Evocation, you take one mental stress. When you bump the power up beyond your Conviction, you take one mental stress for every shift over your Conviction. So, if you have Conviction 3 and you want to summon up Weapon:4 for your attack, that's 2 Mental Stress.

When you mark off your Stress box does it mark off two boxes or just the 2nd box?

Would it look like this?
[X][X]

or like this?
[ ][X]

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Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2013, 10:07:51 PM »
The second. With all kinds of stress, you fill a single box at a time, no matter how high.

Offline Troy

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2013, 03:46:39 PM »
Here's a question we've been bandying around in my circle...

What's the advantage of  carrying an enchanted item(s) over a potion(s)? In other words, why wouldn't you just have some Potion Slots that you can fill each session with whatever you'd like?
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2013, 04:11:43 PM »
Here's a question we've been bandying around in my circle...

What's the advantage of  carrying an enchanted item(s) over a potion(s)? In other words, why wouldn't you just have some Potion Slots that you can fill each session with whatever you'd like?
Potions take time and resources each time you want to make them, while an enchanted item has to be recharged.

It's the difference between buying more ammo for a gun and having to build a new gun from scratch every time you wanted to shoot someone.
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