Author Topic: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]  (Read 37132 times)

Offline Hollorr

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Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #135 on: March 10, 2013, 01:03:54 AM »
Yuppers.  That's why we don't want to nix threads like this, just make sure they stay clear of the real-world religious and sociopolitical topics.  It's the type of issue that brings out the value-judgments in droves, but it's what the books are about pretty much. 
hmm in that case should I quit using videogames/Anime in my example of why I think mab is what she is?

Offline Serack

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Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #136 on: September 09, 2013, 02:56:04 PM »
unlock bump, I think unlocks usually only last about a day, so get yer responses in quick! :)

Edit:  Reunlocked 9/10/13
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 02:46:22 PM by Serack »
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Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #137 on: September 10, 2013, 09:57:25 PM »
Many thanks Serack  ;D (and if it's not too much trouble, could you or another one of the mods move the debate on Mabs evilness? It kind of obstructs the topic of this thread. Thanks  :) ).

The problems with making such assumptions as you did is the side effects. If we apply your idea, it effects something else. That is the beauty of Jim's Dresden Files.

If we assume that Mab's soul could move up and down the spectrum from bright to dark during her tenure as the winter queen, you basically cheapens the corrupting power of the winter queen's mantle. Even the knight's mantle is already so powerfully corrupt as we saw in CD. The lady's mantle should be magnitudes more corruptive and Queens should be magnitudes more from the lady's.

If we assume that interactions with mortals could significantly brightens Mab's soul, and we must assume that it is significant because assumeing little will reduced the effect of moartal interactions itself, then we must assume that once upon a time Mab's soul is a lot darker than her current soul is.

If a soul that much darker than current Mab is redeemable, than the corruptive influence and the danger of total darkness becomes laughable. Even someone that is in deeper shit than Mab can be redeem, whats to worry about? And if Mab could move from a lot darker place to her current position, it will be easy for her to go fforewoard and brightens her soul even more. Why didn't she then?

You see how one assumption could open so many new can of worms?

I think you're confusing "having a soul" with "redemption". Look at Nicodemus: Jim has said he's "pure evil" and yet he totally has a soul and Free Will.

Not only that but having a soul can enable you to do horrible things. Someone like Aurora wouldn't ordinarily do something like torture to someone else because it's outside her nature. If she had a soul however, than it is possible that she would do something like that.

Some statements I want to respond to specifically:

Quote
If we assume that Mab's soul could move up and down the spectrum from bright to dark during her tenure as the winter queen, you basically cheapens the corrupting power of the winter queen's mantle.

Does it cheapen the corrupting power of the coins because you can reject them even after you've excepted them? That seems kind of demeaning to Sanya... 

I like redemption. While Mab getting a small flicker of a soul isn't redemption, it allows for the possibility of it. Not to mention Jim probably doesn't share your thoughts since he put in those strong hints with Mother Summer.

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If we assume that interactions with mortals could significantly brightens Mab's soul, and we must assume that it is significant because assumeing little will reduced the effect of moartal interactions itself, then we must assume that once upon a time Mab's soul is a lot darker than her current soul is.

I think that's a whole lot of assumptions.  We don't have any real measuring scale for a soul getting brigher or dimmer. Why are we saying that Mab having feelings towards her daughter means her soul has brightened "significantly"? What does that even mean?

How does assuming less reduce the effect of mortal interactions? Why does it matter if it does? We know from Bob that mortals exchange bits of their souls. We don't have any idea how much though so...?

Mab did exactly one thing against her nature: she had feelings towards her daughter. That's it. I think it's a leap to assume that means her soul is as bright as the average persons.

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If a soul that much darker than current Mab is redeemable, than the corruptive influence and the danger of total darkness becomes laughable. Even someone that is in deeper shit than Mab can be redeem, whats to worry about?

I don't think you should really use terms like "corruptive influence", "total darkness", and "redeem". Losing your soul isn't necessarily the same thing as becoming evil. Take a hypothetical half-angel Scion for example (and putting aside the weirdness of angles being made of soul. This is just an example after all). The nature of angels is good, they are the positive good forces of the Dresdenverse. The more the Scion shifts towards becoming an angel, the less able they are to commit evil acts. They still lose their soul though. 

Anyways, it's worrying because why would you want to regain your soul after you lost it (or practically speaking lost it)? In my theory Mab being able to gain a tiny ember of a soul was entirely unintentional. It also possibly took hundreds upon hundreds of years. It may be a difference of opinion but I don't find that laughable.
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Offline vultur

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Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #138 on: September 11, 2013, 02:10:35 AM »
I think a lot of confusion is coming from the fact that some people are using "lost one's soul" to mean "damned/fallen to evil" and some people are using it to mean "soul goes away because you've become a non-souled supernatural being".

It's not totally clear which way Jim is using it in the relevant WoJs, but the "mold on your conscience" bit and the reference to not needing supernatural powers to lose your soul seems to imply the former, at least for that one WoJ.