Author Topic: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection [CD Spoilers]  (Read 10861 times)

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection [CD Spoilers]
« on: December 31, 2012, 11:11:51 AM »
Just putting this here so that I can put this thread in the Reference Collection Index and not have this collection lost to time (and have to retype it).

From Storm Front, Chapter 6:

Quote
Santa is a much bigger and more powerful faery than Toot, and I don't know his true name anyway. You'd never see me trying to nab Saint Nick in a magic circle even if I did. I don't think anyone has stones that big.

From page 50 of the DFRPG-Our World:

Quote
The "Wyld Courts": There are a couple of powerful Sidhe on par with the Faerie Queens-the Earlking is on of them, and it's rumored-DON'T LAUGH!-that Santa Claus (a brownie Sidhe) may be another.

From the WoJ compilation:

Quote
Priscillie asked Jim if the Erlking is Wyldfae at DragonCon and posted this reply:
Jim: He is wyldfae.  He isn't a subject of Mab or Titania.  That's what Wyldfae means.  But his origins are in the Summer-side of the cycle of seasons, just like Titania's are.
Ditto Santa, only in Winter
(He /is/ beholden to Mother Summer, but basically everyone in Faerie is, so.)
(I mean, that's like saying "you must obey the law of gravity."  Duh.)

From the 2012 JimButcher AMA Reddit Q&A:

Quote
Dudesan: You've described Santa Claus as being the Winter King. What does that title mean? Do Winter and Summer each have a trinity of Father/King/Prince, like they do with Mother/Queen/Lady? Is the King necessarily the consort of the Queen? If so, will we be seeing Oberon at some point?
Jim: 5) The Faerie realms just aren't that structured. It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.
Oberon... well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare's day. He didn't make it.

EDIT: From the recent KC signing:

Quote
Is Kringle Fae?
Is Kringle Fae? His mantle, yes, is part of the Winter Court. Which does not necessarily mean that he himself is Fae as much as the fact that his mantle is. While heís there, heís got to pay deference to Mab. If Mab gives him a command, he has to obey it. Mabís too smart to throw him many commands, itís much smarter to just let him do his thing. Because itís this mysterious Christmas-y stuff anyway, cheer and goodwill, whatever. She supposes itís good to have somebody like that for PR. That at times could be useful. Itís like, oh, so, Winter Court, whole season of death, evil, but then itís like,  yeah, Christmas! Oh, wow, yeah, youíre right. Itís like the schools are trying to buy the tobacco company. **unintelligible** Itís something of the same thing. And besides which, if she doesnít give him a bunch of orders and stuff, then basically, when she does go to him and say, ďI need to know somethingĒ, that really, what can you do, this is our game of give-and-take. So, in a way, itís not really a subservient relationship, Mabís too smart for it to be that.


Incidently, this also confirms my thought that Odin only becomes Fae when he dons the Mantle of Kringle  ;D.

EDIT: upon rereading I think this should actually be in the non-spoiler section. Mods?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 01:34:41 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Offline KevinSig

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 11:16:50 AM »
You missed this one...

Quote
She gave me a look of skepticism you can really only get from children who have recently gone through the sobering trauma of discovering that there is no Santa Claus. (Ironically, there isĖbut he canít operate on the sort of scale that used to make everyone believe in him. More modern living.)

Plus, there's the one from Changes about Santa playing football.

Yes, they aren't specifically references to Santa being a member of the Fae, but they do add a bit to the background.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 11:19:24 AM by KevinSig »

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 11:18:33 AM »
You missed this one...

Plus, there's the one from Changes about Santa playing football.

Those don't say anything about Santa being a Fae though. It's pretty clear that Santa exists in the Dresdenverse. I created this list specifically for the people on the forums who doubted that Santa was one of the Fae.
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Offline KevinSig

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 11:50:28 AM »
Those don't say anything about Santa being a Fae though. It's pretty clear that Santa exists in the Dresdenverse. I created this list specifically for the people on the forums who doubted that Santa was one of the Fae.

Well, I have my niggling little doubts,
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I guess it comes down to what exactly makes a member of the Fae, Fae to begin with.

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 11:56:41 AM »
Well, I have my niggling little doubts, as Odin's entire office was made of stainless steel.  And Santa's mail armor appeared to be steel, but Harry thinks it must have obviously been something else.

And I didn't pick up that he had to commit to the truth, like Mab might.

I guess it comes down to what exactly makes a member of the Fae, Fae to begin with.

My thinking is that Odin turns into a Fae when he dons the Mantle of Santa Claus. Also, I can't recall Santa lying anywhere in CD.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 11:45:13 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 12:01:13 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 12:09:15 PM by wizard nelson »

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 12:10:34 PM »
well its not so much that i doubt it as this: odin at some point started out in his most original form as a sidhe. after gaining followers and acruing power through various mean, he became more, hence his ability to handle iron. odin still holds(or perhaps captured it somehow, when people first believed in santa?) the kringle mantle which is a fae mantle. idk if as kringle iron becomes his kryptonite though... so yes, odin was fae, he holds a fae mantle. but he himself is not beholden to the nature of being of fairy anymore. specifically you might be able to say its because he has his own demense  :-\ but so does erlking, so thats inconclusive evidence.

I don't think this is true because Odin himself has 0 connections to Faeries in any of the myths. Heck, the only Fae connections I can see with Santa are the "elves" (may be brownies in the Dresdenverse) that work in his workshop.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 11:45:48 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 12:17:53 PM »
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Offline KevinSig

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 12:59:13 PM »
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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 01:25:02 PM »
Not so much lying, but speaking plainly.  Something you don't get from the lesser queens much.  Heck, Cat Sith & Lea get more tricksey than Santa seemed to be.

Well that's more of a personality trait of most of the Fae than an ironclad rule (like the no-lying thing is). IMO it wouldn't fit for Santa to be deceptive and tricksy, it completely goes against his image. Besides the Little Folk aren't deceptive or tricksy at all (from what we've seen). Trolls, rawheads, and shellycobs don't seem so cunning either.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 11:46:22 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 03:44:59 PM »
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Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 06:16:49 PM »
beg pardon, but santa has tons of connections to faeries in the myths. they just werent called faeries. they were called Vanir (friendly people is one well known translation). also of course the svartalves, and other folks. Heck one of Odin's wives was the Jotun Queen of Winter.

 the Eddas are composed of a mix of germanic, celtic,scandanvain and christain mythologies. lots of fae in there.

Huh...goes to show how much I know about norse mythology  :P. Still, to my knowledge there's no indication in the myths that Odin himself is a Faerie.

Off-topic question: Do you think the Jotun are Winter Fae (and that the Jotun Queen of Winter is Mab or a Mantle of Mab's)?  Gard calls the Fomor "cousins of the Jotun" and we know that there was a ton of interbreeding between the Fomor and the Fae ages ago...

If this is true than a potentially interesting way to go would be for both Kings of the Courts to be the consorts of the Queens (as opposed to the Knights who are consort to all 3 of the trinity). This would have played into the "Kings are the opposite of Queens in their given season" thing that the Kings had going on. Unfortunately we know Jim has chosen a different direction due to this WoJ:

Quote
Dudesan: You've described Santa Claus as being the Winter King. What does that title mean? Do Winter and Summer each have a trinity of Father/King/Prince, like they do with Mother/Queen/Lady? Is the King necessarily the consort of the Queen? If so, will we be seeing Oberon at some point?
Jim: 5) The Faerie realms just aren't that structured. It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.
Oberon... well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare's day. He didn't make it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 11:47:35 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Offline Ms Duck

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 07:32:33 PM »
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Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline Arcane

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 08:31:39 PM »
Here's a quote that might be relevant to Santa's true nature.

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Re: Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 09:27:04 PM »
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