Assistance Wrapping Up the "Hand of Glory"

[furashgf]

I brought this idea up when I was just fiddling with the idea, but I'm now using it in a real game with a real character (my own) and wanted to find the best way to do this (none of us are experienced DFRPG players).

So, I admit to ripping off the idea from the (amazing) audio series "Wormwood," where a main character is given a bizzare left hand in exchange for one he has lost by a mysterious (very demonic) benefactor.

1. This seems like a straight ahead Scion of Power w/ an Item of Power, since the benefactor can ask and expect assistance at any time, and ultimately has a VERY bad final request. Does this seem right? i.e., other's recognize him as a powerful tool (in both senses) so you've got the -1 refresh and the +1 bonus to dealing with supernaturals.

2. Assuming the hand is an Item of Power (+1 since it's not a sword but it's not a hidden secret lapel pin), it seems like the basics work:
a. it "is what it is" - it's hand like, and can do things a hand can do
b. it's indestructable

So, in terms of abilities granted, the general recommendation I received previously was to try to just make it full of skill stunts rather than trying to pick a bunch of powers and then gimp them with endless catches. So, here's what the hand can do (or I'd like for it to be able to do), and my stab at how to model it:

c. Perception Supernatural Awareness: the hand can sense magic, which it passes to its wielder like threads of various strengths that he/she cannot see but feel. e.g., a ward might feel like a strong metal mesh wall, while the tracks of a supernatural creature are a rope-like thread that can be followed. So, Awareness - able to sense magic and get a vague sense of "what it is" metaphorically. Cost: no idea.

d. Strength Crushing Grip: The hand itself is supernaturally strong, however since its just a hand, it's kind of limited. It can hang onto things indefinately, crush steel or someone's throat. However, it can't do much else because it's attached to a normal arm (no bonus to hand to hand damage, can't punch extra hard).

e. Buglary/Larceny - Open Any Door, Break Any Trap: The hand itself can supernaturally unlock nearly any mechanical or electronic lock or something that's simply "stuck" but would normally open. It can do the same thing to magical shields, wards, locks, pre-prepared spell traps/locations and the like. So, I was thinking its a stunt on burglary or larceny. However, I'd like ALL the points in the hand, not just the bonus, since without the hand the guy can't unlock anything without a key. The stunt would just be exteneded to work also on magical locks also. However, that's all it does - it doesn't make him better at any theivery stuff. Cost: no idea. Not sure how this would work mechanically either when not dealing with normal locks.

f. Dodge (or something like that): the hand will and can act independently to defend its wielder, moving at impossible speeds to catch a bullet, block an unseen blow, etc. Again, this skill and it's stunt bonus would be wholly in the hand. Also, while it's kind of powerful, it's limited - shoot him 3 or 4 times, the hand might at best get 1 or two bullets. Cost: no idea

g. Finally, the hand itself is incredibly creepy. It's sort of like a hand of glory made from a deamon's hand. I don't know if this needs to be modeled in any way, or it's built into the aspect.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[UmbraLux]

#1&2 - Is the hand an item which can be lost or has it become part of the character?  Answering that probably tells you whether or not IoP fits.  If it can't be lost, I'm not sure the IoP rebate fits.
#2c - I'd use Supernatural Sense.
#2d - Either an aspect, a custom power, or a modified Strength power would work.  The latter is probably easiest.
#2e - Best way is probably giving the hand a set unlock skill rating.  I'd scale the cost based on how high a rating you wanted.
#2f - Either re-skin Toughness or a set block / armor strength would work.
#2g - You could use Human Form to not have the powers except when the hand is demonic.  Or you could write up a disadvantage based on the ick factor and set a rebate for it.  Depends on what you're trying to model.

[Becq]

Caveat: I am unfamiliar with the series.  That said, some thoughs:

I would only use the IoP rules for this item if the hand is either wielded (held by the remaining natural hand) or temporarily attached (strapped on to the stump).  If the hand is 'permanently' attached (ie, grafted, etc), then making it an IoP doesn't make sense, as UmbraLux mentioned.  Instead, give the player a high concept along the lines of "<insert some base concept> with a hand replacement supplied by a demonic donor" and buy powers linked to it, most likely including Demonic Copilot.

A couple of optional extras:

• If the demonic hand is only sometimes active, use Human Form to deal with this, possibly with skill shifts provided by Beast Change.
• If the demon decides when it awakes, you can apply Involuntary Change to the Human Form.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd listen to UmbraLux if I were you.

e and f seem like stunts to me. Use Fists for lockpicking and for ranged defence.

[furashgf]

Thank you above for taking the time to answer my question. However, I don't really understand what you're suggesting, except that if the item can't be removed short of chopping your hand off it's not an Item of Power. Note that I'm sure there's nothing wrong with what you proposed, I'm just not familiar enough with the game to make sense of all of the suggestions.

Just a few thoughts:

1. If the hand, while typically not choosing to ignore his instructions (so if it's a deamon, its VERY easy going), has the other features of an item of power (it is what it is, and it's indestructable), then could we just make it an item of power with a +1 refresh bonus because it becomes quiescent in (real) concecrated/holy ground. It is demonic (or something like that).

2. The recommendation to use it with powers confuses me (not your fault, mine). It sounds like I quickly end up with as few refresh points as a White Council wizard with 1/8th of the power. That is, it does have "powers", but they're very "gimped"/restricted.
a. the hand gets a significant bonus to unlocking any locked or stuck item, electronic or mechanical. However, it doesn't grant him any other burglary or larceny abilities. He has no idea how the hand does this, and can't sneak or case an apartment.
b. the hand is very good at counterspelling already set spells. So, if someone SETS IN ADVANCE a magical trap, a ward / barrier, mind control trigger, etc., it's likely to be able to deactivate it. But that's it. It can't do any other kinds of spells, and it only counterspells against already set magic. If Dresden shot a fireball at him on the fly, he'd fry (the hand would be fine).
c. The strength bonus only applies to the hand itself. Sure, it can crush a table leg or someone's throat, but that's it. It can't do anything else you could do with a strength bonus.
d. The hand can sense spells, which it passes along to the user as a feeling of webs, threads, or cables. However, that's it. He can probably deduce "there's a spell here" or "there's a strong spell here." But that's it.
e. The hand can do that bullet/arrow catching trick, being indestructable and incredibly fast, and dragging the arm along with it (the only case where it can), but it's not going to stop a volley of ranged weapons. While the hand is satisfied with the bullet it just caught and the kinetic energy it dispersed, he can get gut shot a second later.

So, that's some cool stuff, but it doesn't seem equivalent in power to a White Council Wizard. It sounds more in the range of a Lupine or something. Maybe I'm way off here.

Ideally, since I have very little clue, I'd rather model everything but the "it is what it is" and the "indestructable" as stunts based off normal powers, since that's kind of straightforward, and sort of fits - it's a very narrow use of something, or an odd use of something (e.g., use agility or something for breaking spells).

[Becq]

Here's the 'budget' form of the character:

High Concept: Man with a demonic hand

Powers:
-1 The Sight (Note: the character does not know how to open his third eye, which might be worth compels)
-1 Demonic Co-Pilot
-2 Inhuman Strength
-1 Hand of Thievery: Once per scene, you may spend a fate point to gain a +4 to your Burglery skill when trying to open a locked door (Thoughts on balance, anyone?  I figure the very narrow focus balances the larger bonus.)

The Sight lets you use Lore to sense Supernatural things or the sense at a touch that a person is not fully mortal (2d on your list).  Demonic Co-Pilot grants you bonuses to things that the Demon wants you to do (not on your list, but gives you a grab-bag of possible uses).  Inhuman Strength is self-explanatory, but note that when you don't have access to it due to the strength being one-handed, this would qualify as a compel against your high concept (that would cover 2c).  Note also that since Human Guise or Human Form are not present, there will always be something that others sense as being not-right with you.  When others react to this, it would likewise be a high concept compel (2g on the original list).  Hand of Thievery is a large bonus to unlocking doors (2a).  In addition, you could invoke your high concept (and possibly your Demonic Co-Pilot) for an assortment of bonuses, including (for example) a bonus to dodge to reflect the Hand blocking an attack.

Does this kind of match what you're looking for?  You can build up this 'basic' package if you want (increase the strength power, add stunts to improve certain aspects, etc), but this basic package gets you a lot of what you mentioned, for only 5 refresh.  Note that I didn't cover the magic-breaking aspect here.)

[furashgf]

Sweet!

[furashgf]

Hmm... I hadn't thought of the compel and high aspect as being powers rather than modeling it with refresh bonuses. So, I do have inhuman strength, and it costs me -2, but I can easily get a fate point because it can't be used most of the time. Is this a common way to do things? Same thing with the marked by power/even normals are creeped out. I was thinking that it would be something like inhuman strength -1 or a stunt on strength (crushing grip). Why would the latter be worse?

So, for spellbreaking. That's the last thing we need. Could it be as simple as a stunt on agility or strength, because that's the way the hand models it for the wielder (webs of stuff that can be torn apart) - there must be some difficulty level based on how much juice was originally put into the spell.

[Sanctaphrax]

-1 Hand of Thievery: Once per scene, you may spend a fate point to gain a +4 to your Burglery skill when trying to open a locked door (Thoughts on balance, anyone?  I figure the very narrow focus balances the larger bonus.)

Looks weak. I'd allow a stunt giving +4 to any Burglary roll for a Fate Point.

The anti-magic could just be a stunt letting you use Might to break spells. It's a bit magic-y for a stunt, but whatever.

Hmm... I hadn't thought of the compel and high aspect as being powers rather than modeling it with refresh bonuses. So, I do have inhuman strength, and it costs me -2, but I can easily get a fate point because it can't be used most of the time. Is this a common way to do things? Same thing with the marked by power/even normals are creeped out. I was thinking that it would be something like inhuman strength -1 or a stunt on strength (crushing grip). Why would the latter be worse?

I have no idea what you are saying here. Please rephrase.

[Becq]

The anti-magic could just be a stunt letting you use Might to break spells. It's a bit magic-y for a stunt, but whatever.

I was considering this, too.  As to the second part, easy enough.  It's a power, not a stunt (but still costs -1).

I have no idea what you are saying here. Please rephrase.

I think he was saying that he assumed that as with other game systems, all benefits and weaknesses had to be expressed in terms of actual powers or deliberately modified versions of powers, etc -- as opposed to using compels on a high concept to reflect limitations placed on an otherwise standard power.  So instead of letting high concept invocations handle some of the bonuses and penalties, he thought there should be a stunt for each possible bonus, etc.

At least that's my read.

[furashgf]

Yes, you got it right. I'm used to systems that try to balance with drawbacks or explicitly define powers.

I'm not clear, however, on how far I can go with "Demonic Left Hand." For example, I could have it compelled because it creeps people out and makes them difficult to deal with (-1 on social stuff) if they see it or sense it.

I'm not sure how I could tag it for a negative/compell for something like superhuman grip (which you suggested modeling as superhuman strength). Durability seems easy - someone shoots a bullet at me, the hand catches it, I describe it that way. However, if I punch someone in the head, I don't get the superhuman strength benefit. What happens there? I can't see how you negative compel this and if you can't, why it should be the same cost as someone who can lift a bus.

Can someone suggest the simplest way to counterspell?

[Sanctaphrax]

A Compel can do anything.

Which makes it a good way to represent narrative weaknesses.

Anyway, the easiest way to do the counterspell thing is a stunt saying "you may use your Might skill to destroy magical effects. Roll your Might skill against a difficulty equal to the effect's strength, if successful the effect ends."

[furashgf]

Perfect. Done here. Thanks!