Author Topic: World Building vs. Backstory  (Read 3822 times)

Offline meg_evonne

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World Building vs. Backstory
« on: March 06, 2012, 11:24:02 PM »
OK, call me dense, but I just figured this out. Well, a critique person pointed it out.  Your thoughts? Did I jump on her WB vs BS bandwagon too soon?

Back Story can be World Building
World Building can be Back Story
but World Building is not Back Story
and Back Story is not World Building....
Know which is which and when World Building isn't BOTH, cut it and show it in another way.  *arghhhh*

Both are essential, but you don't need to show world building as it should be the air your novel lives in, but back story you must include in order to tell your story. Right? or is that poppycock?

i think I'm going back to review my G.R.R. Martin and see if this is all wrong...
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Offline LizW65

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 12:03:05 AM »
Another way to put it might be:
"Backstory is what happened; worldbuilding is what is."
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Offline MClark

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 04:05:57 PM »
I've never thought of it like that.

It sounds like a good guideline. Thanks.

Though it seemed Kim Stanley Robinson broke the rule in his Mars trilogy. The characters were always getting on a glider, blimp, dune buggy or Martian winnebago, so Robinson could spend spend many pages talking about martian geography or the terrra forming scheme. Well, except when he talked about socialism.

I've heard not to spend too much time on world building. Brandon Sanderson on writingexcuses said to focus on areas of conflict, IIRC.

Rereading your post it sounds like I'm getting confused WB- in Story is what you are talking about. WBiS is spending too much time in story talking about your world. Which KSR does in the mars trilogy but gets away with.

The WB sanderson was talking about was just spending more time building the world than writing your WIP, eg "These noble families way over here are having a Gleph-Guibelline type war and I'm spending two weeks figuring out all the players (ie copying from italian history with the names changed a bit), even though my epic will not reach this part of the globe for four more books." Maybe call this World Building-Game Master, since its the sort thing RPG GMs do.

It seems authors will always have WBGM we don't show. Butcher has all sorts of WBGM planned out eg who gave the werewolf belts to the FBI. But you actually have to make progress on your work in progress, so don't spend to much time on WBGM.

Sorry, sort of a rambling post.

cenwolfgirl

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 05:03:47 PM »
^we do them

i do back story for charictors and let them intreduce the world when are were it is relivent
i treat them sepritly

Offline The Deposed King

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 03:37:55 AM »
OK, call me dense, but I just figured this out. Well, a critique person pointed it out.  Your thoughts? Did I jump on her WB vs BS bandwagon too soon?

Back Story can be World Building
World Building can be Back Story
but World Building is not Back Story
and Back Story is not World Building....
Know which is which and when World Building isn't BOTH, cut it and show it in another way.  *arghhhh*

Both are essential, but you don't need to show world building as it should be the air your novel lives in, but back story you must include in order to tell your story. Right? or is that poppycock?

i think I'm going back to review my G.R.R. Martin and see if this is all wrong...


Back story is what happened to the character, or is just about to happen to him.  As in there's an invasion and thus the army outside storming the gates is kind of important.

But unless you're guy/gal starts out as a mucky muck, you don't need to focus on how large the great land of Meg Evonne is.  Nor the king's penchant for abusing damels green skirts.  Nor the Fact that Governor Evonne is building the first transcontinental magic bridge.  That can all be a nice bits of world building tid bits its nicer to discover in a tavern, from ar courtier or when you are seeking a job, and someone tells you all about it in the front story, i.e. as she's living it not telling us her life/kingdome's story.  Same thing for all sorts of important information that can be revealed as you build the world around your heroine as she has her feats of daring do and/or runs away screaming before being locked up as she cuts her hands on the magic glass ceiling.

Not sure if I made any sense?


The Deposed King


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cenwolfgirl

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 06:55:32 PM »
it did to me but you were not asking me *shruges* oh well  ;D

Offline meg_evonne

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 11:14:15 PM »
Another way to put it might be:
"Backstory is what happened; worldbuilding is what is."
^^^ yep cubed

thank you all. All great comments to stir around in my brain. And thank you DK. I understood completely; doing might be harder. . .

I also plan on reviewing those other works that use WB more extensively, but I write more comfortably in WB lighter vein--so I should stop doing world dump and get off my lazy writer's butt. If it were easy. . .


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Offline The Deposed King

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 11:33:05 PM »
^^^ yep cubed

thank you all. All great comments to stir around in my brain. And thank you DK. I understood completely; doing might be harder. . .

I also plan on reviewing those other works that use WB more extensively, but I write more comfortably in WB lighter vein--so I should stop doing world dump and get off my lazy writer's butt. If it were easy. . .


In my experience I write a lot of info dump when I'm getting started.  If you can then just cut it, and move it over to your cheat sheet.  Where you put the names of every character, light back story, and important world building info for later review.  I've found you've got a better chance at a good start with your now clean slate.  i need that info to keep things consistent, the reader on the other hand doesn't and will actively reject it.

But everyone's process is different.  remember if at first you don't succeed.  Try try again.


thanks.

The Deposed King



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Offline Lanodantheon

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 01:30:23 AM »

I've heard not to spend too much time on world building. Brandon Sanderson on writingexcuses said to focus on areas of conflict, IIRC.

Rereading your post it sounds like I'm getting confused WB- in Story is what you are talking about. WBiS is spending too much time in story talking about your world. Which KSR does in the mars trilogy but gets away with.

The WB sanderson was talking about was just spending more time building the world than writing your WIP, eg "These noble families way over here are having a Gleph-Guibelline type war and I'm spending two weeks figuring out all the players (ie copying from italian history with the names changed a bit), even though my epic will not reach this part of the globe for four more books." Maybe call this World Building-Game Master, since its the sort thing RPG GMs do.

It seems authors will always have WBGM we don't show. Butcher has all sorts of WBGM planned out eg who gave the werewolf belts to the FBI. But you actually have to make progress on your work in progress, so don't spend to much time on WBGM.


The writing Excuses crew do indeed talk a lot about sources of conflict. Finding the what, where and why of the conflict of the story elements is the way to go. 


However, I personally like to compliment this advice because I feel it's incomplete. I like to think about not just what the conflict is in a story but what are the Isles of Stability.


I think of icebergs on a body of water. Conflict is when two Icebergs rub against eachother. The icebergs themselves are this things in conflict, which are in and of themselves whole objects. Something has to hold these icebergs together otherwise they can't rub against each other.


The WE team focuses a lot of energy on, "Why are people/places/things in the story arguing with each other?" I personally like to think about why People/places/things are not doing that. What keeps the story elements whole?


That's the Isles of Stability.


If you have an Evil Emperor bent on World Domination, why the heck do people follow him? If they are following him because they are afraid of him, why? How do they know? What makes someone put on the Imperial Uniform and swear allegiance to the Emperor?


If you have a bunch of fictional religions in your world, W.E. recommends you find the conflict between them. I recommend finding what brings people to those fictional religions.


A classic piece of character development is what a character wants(his goal) and how that character needs to change to achieve that goal. The Isles of Stability in this case are the Character's goal and why he wants it and why the character keeps pursuing the goal despite the obstacles in his path. When the MC gets knocked down in the ring, why does he get up on count number 7? What keeps the character on his path? 


In terms of the Thread Topic of Backstory vs World-building, here's my two cents:


Tell your story in as few words and concepts as possible and gradually add more. The human brain can only have so many ideas in mind at any one time. An audiobook I was listening to (Your Brain at Work by David Rock) explains this in more detail than I can.


What is the minimum amount of information about the world and/or the back story to understand what's going on?


What are the Isles of Stability and the Conflict between them?


The key goals in regards to presenting world-building and backstory for me at least are images to keep in mind(visual motifs, themes, etc) and what the story is about.


I had an example...but it might give people ideas...like me.
www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/the-emerald-city  (Nov 2012 Campaign of The Month)

fate-accelerated-star-wars-the-infinite-empire.obsidianportal.com/
(June 2016 Campaign of The Month)

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Offline arcanist

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 06:43:10 AM »
my technique is to desisng a world, its history, etc. etc. and then pick an interesting part of that history and expand it for a story. so for me its kind of blurred.

cenwolfgirl

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 08:55:06 PM »
i use vew points to exsplain diffrent parts of the world and events going on in it
most of the intresting moden history in mine is related in one way or another to one of my charictors and there back story so they exsplain it
i have two plot lins so far its fun to wright at least  ;D

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 08:30:23 AM »
To me - Backstory, as said, is what happened - World is where it happened.
I kinda try to weave the world building, if not this one and this time, into and around
my character's story.  Using their characteristics/habits/behavior to delineate some part of the world they
live in or vice versa.

Offline Paynesgrey

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 02:47:56 PM »
OK, call me dense, but I just figured this out. Well, a critique person pointed it out.  Your thoughts? Did I jump on her WB vs BS bandwagon too soon?

Back Story can be World Building
World Building can be Back Story
but World Building is not Back Story
and Back Story is not World Building....
Know which is which and when World Building isn't BOTH, cut it and show it in another way.  *arghhhh*

Both are essential, but you don't need to show world building as it should be the air your novel lives in, but back story you must include in order to tell your story. Right? or is that poppycock?

i think I'm going back to review my G.R.R. Martin and see if this is all wrong...

Too many variables in how your particular story is envisioned.  World building would that the air smells of saf flowers and music as the keshni are preparing for their festivals.  Backstory is why those things matter and how they came to be.  The two concepts hold hands and dance but who's leading is going to depend on whether your imparting facts or feelings of the current environment.  One does not equal the other, but either can be used as a tool for building the other.  (Personally I love it best when both can be done with the same scene or sentence.)

Does that make any sense?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 02:53:31 PM by Paynesgrey »

Offline trboturtle

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 03:30:40 PM »
Worldbuilding is everything in the world that is; backstory is how it came to be.

Craig
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cenwolfgirl

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Re: World Building vs. Backstory
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 05:51:25 PM »
not necercerily but mostly
back stories can be charictor specific as well