Author Topic: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.  (Read 3319 times)

Offline Becq

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2011, 09:52:01 PM »
Neither quote is about Character Advancement.  The first is from the Character Creation section where it does call templates "crucial".  The second quote is from the Supernatural Powers section and appears to be targeted at concepts more than templates.  In any case, it's a positive "must justify" statement and not a proscriptive one.
If you move down two posts, you'll see a quote from YS92, which is indeed Advancement.  It makes it very clear that a new power that takes a character to 0 refresh can only be chosen from the same, 'justified' list of powers (aka template).
Quote
Functionally, I'm not sure there's much difference between 'templates only being a starting point' and 'being able to freely add or switch out templates'.  If not, are we just disagreeing over terminology?
To some extent.  However, adding a new template requires changing your high concept to include the new template, and might also have some additional prerequisites, depending on the template.  And in Fate, a simple change to high concept can have a significant impact.  There's a huge amount of difference between these three (very simplified)characters:

Quote
HC: Pyromancer
-2 Channeling (Fire)
-2 Inhuman Strength
Quote
HC: Pyromancer Squire to the Winter Knight
-2 Channeling (Fire)
-2 Inhuman Strength
Quote
HC: Biomancy-Enhanced Pyromancer
-2 Channeling (Fire)
-2 Inhuman Strength
The first one (which I believe to violate the game design) gives no indication what the source of one of the character's powers is.  We know he is a practicioner of mortal magic, but the strength has no justification.

The second one creates a link to a source of the inhuman strength.  This character not only has mortal magic, but also owes a measure of allegiance to the Winter Court.  His high concept can be compelled to hex tech items, and can also be compelled to provide service to the Winter Knight (and on the positive side can be used to boost rolls that involve either Pyromancy or his role/training as a squire).  Furthermore, as Squire to the Winter Knight, he has justification (and possibly even a responsibility) to begin learning other powers that a full Winter Knight must know (ie, the Knight template).  In time, him might become the Winter Knight (taking on that full template and adjusting his high concept).

The third one shows that the character has been subjected to Biomancy.  But from whom, given that he has no Thaumaturgical knowledge?  Wardens might be very interested to find out.  And Biomancy doesn't always produce results that are fully as reliable as those produced by nature (or rather, supernature).  Both of these factors might produce compels.

Three characters, all with the same powers, but who play very differently.  This is (in my opinion) why the template and high concept designs shouldn't be simply brushed off and ignored.

Offline Becq

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2011, 10:11:53 PM »
To be honest Becq it does seem odd to me that you would insist on having a template, but then be ok with custom templates (which could in theory be just as unbalanced as not having one) and multiple templates.
They absolutely can be, and peer review is the answer to that.  Ie, the GM/table judges whether or not the custom template is reasonable.  Existing templates should be used as guidelines.

For example, a template that is basically a Focused Practitioner but with unlimited Refinement and the option to take Red Court Infected powers without requiring Feeding Dependency and the forced upgrade to full RCV ... well, that is probably not a reasonable template (or even combination of templates) even with a high concept that covers all of that stuff.

As a less extreme example, an "Apprentice Wizard" template that has the musts of a Focused Practitioner plus the Wizard template musts as options is probably reasonable ... but the Wizard options (ie, Refinement) shouldn't be 'justified' until all of the Wizard musts are bought.

Writing down the custom template in advance is useful because it guarantees that everyone is on the same page from the very start.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2011, 10:18:12 PM »
@Becq - Your character's High Concept does (or at least should) guide choices of powers available.  I haven't said differently.  But High Concept != template.  You appear to be conflating the two.  Page 92 requires new powers to fit the concept...if it mentions templates I'm still missing it.  (Quite possible at the moment, I'm working off a pdf.) 
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2011, 10:18:37 PM »
I don't care about templates at all.

Adding an extra element to the balance of the game strikes me as a foolish idea. This is not a class system the way that D&D is, and I don't think you should try and make it into one.

The benefits of the template system listed by Becq can also be obtained from the basic rules for aspects and powers.

And worrying about the balance of custom templates is mildly insane given the incredible freedom of the Scion, Emissary Of Power, and Changeling templates and the incredible potential power of the Focused Practitioner template.

Offline Quackerjack

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2011, 10:53:47 PM »
Templates are a good guideline, but nothing more in our group.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Focused Practitioner.Defending against a spell.
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2011, 01:12:53 AM »
Page 92 requires new powers to fit the concept...if it mentions templates I'm still missing it.

No, he's just conflating the two.
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