Author Topic: Question about Inhuman Strength  (Read 18076 times)

NicholasQuinn

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 11:10:57 AM »
With little actual combat experience, I'm not even going to bother commenting on the actual effects of being strong in a fight. But from a purely balance perspective I would suggest that might not be allowed to complement it. A stunt to allow it? Maybe, the bonuses from complementing (I've not read the section in a while, correct me if I'm mistaken) stay relatively small (+1/+2?) and thus can work as a stunt, although I'd argue against anything above +1.

As for those arguing strength is a worth a bonus in melee combat etc, using an appropriate aspect for straight up to hit roll bonuses would be my advice.

Offline Arcane

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 01:27:47 PM »
Hard to parry - Same argument as above, it makes no sense for someone with 0 might to be able to parry someone with mythic strength,
Got to disagree with you there.  All that force in attempt to hit someone is being focused in one direction.  If one manages to hit the limb in question from an angle rather than head-on then there is no force being exerted to prevent the blow from being deflected.  Also, the existence of combat techniques like those in judo which take advantage of an attacker's force and uses it against them is another way someone weaker can parry someone who is stronger.
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Offline ways and means

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 02:37:04 PM »
Have hard time seeing someone parrying a steam train or a dragons claw, Someone with mythic Strength can throw cars and hit with the force of rocket launcher (6 shifts), A fist attack with mythic strength has more force than a car travelling at 50mph (weapons 5) and s weapon used by someone with mythic strength is more powerful still I just can't see a normal person having the force to deflect those sort of blows (easier to parry a car).   
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 03:37:47 PM by ways and means »
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Offline Dravokian

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 03:34:14 PM »
When it comes to augmenting fist attacks with might i made me a house rule for my table. The way I did it especially with inhuman or supernatural strength is that when you do it you take the temporary aspect of off balance until your next turn. So basically you gain a little extra on the attack but you leave yourself open cause you over extended your attack. I don't give a free tag on this aspect. It must be payed for with a fate point but anyone watching can make a simple alertness or fists roll to see that you have overextended yourself and are more open for a attack, with the spending of a fate point to take advantage of it. It works well for my table and you may want to look into it for yours as well.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 04:54:31 PM »
If two characters with Superb Fists are not equally strong, then the weaker one is more skilled (or maybe faster, etc) than the stronger one.

Because they are both equally good at punching. Strength is a part of that, and so if someone is equally good at punching but less strong then that means he has some other quality that compensates.

(My interpretation.)

A character with Mythic Strength facing an opponent who tries to parry his attacks has a good justification for a Might Declaration right there. That would provide the desired situational advantage.

Alternately, you could make a stunt or power that causes your melee attacks to count as ranged attacks when determining what skill can be used to defend. I wouldn't expect any balance problems, given that you could accomplish the same effect by using a thrown weapon.

Offline ways and means

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 05:51:53 PM »
If two characters with Superb Fists are not equally strong, then the weaker one is more skilled (or maybe faster, etc) than the stronger one.

Because they are both equally good at punching. Strength is a part of that, and so if someone is equally good at punching but less strong then that means he has some other quality that compensates.

(My interpretation.)

A character with Mythic Strength facing an opponent who tries to parry his attacks has a good justification for a Might Declaration right there. That would provide the desired situational advantage.

Alternately, you could make a stunt or power that causes your melee attacks to count as ranged attacks when determining what skill can be used to defend. I wouldn't expect any balance problems, given that you could accomplish the same effect by using a thrown weapon.

I have never quite liked the interpretation that high skills are qualified by powers, for one there are plenty of situations where powers aren't available or not in use (White courtiers choose when to use their powers) and then they would still have the same skill even without having the same boosted strength or resources. So unless you would be willing to lower pc's skill in these situations (which is a disadvantage they didn't get a rebate for) the idea doesn't hold up. 
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2011, 08:32:16 PM »
Sounds like a good compel to me.

Or maybe the White Courtier suffers from hunger demon interference that reduces his finesse and cancels out the benefits of his increased strength.

Or whatever. Point is, the abstractness of the FATE system is our friend here. There's no need to compromise game balance based on what makes sense, because what makes sense is so mutable.

Offline Todjaeger

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 08:01:07 PM »
Have hard time seeing someone parrying a steam train or a dragons claw, Someone with mythic Strength can throw cars and hit with the force of rocket launcher (6 shifts), A fist attack with mythic strength has more force than a car travelling at 50mph (weapons 5) and s weapon used by someone with mythic strength is more powerful still I just can't see a normal person having the force to deflect those sort of blows (easier to parry a car).

The easiest way I have of explaining this is that all the brute force in the world doesn't make a swing, kick or punch any more accurate.  This is why someone with a higher Fists skill, but a lower strength could still defend against an attack.  Whether they are parrying a strike, redirecting it, or just side-stepping it, that is all narration.

Once the strike actually connects is then when the strength could come into play.

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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2011, 10:11:22 PM »
I think that applying the inhuman strength modifier to fists or might makes sense when one is doing a MANEUVER, but not when doing a strike.  That way, someone who is really strong may be able to connect with some maneuvers where they would not with just their strikes, and then tag the maneuvers in order to hit with their strikes.

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2011, 02:59:52 AM »
Sounds like a decent idea. No matter how good someone is at nonmagical maneuvers, they aren't going to break the game that way.

Though I'm not sure it was worth resurrecting the thread for.

Offline Arcteryx

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 03:31:16 AM »
I think that applying the inhuman strength modifier to fists or might makes sense when one is doing a MANEUVER, but not when doing a strike.  That way, someone who is really strong may be able to connect with some maneuvers where they would not with just their strikes, and then tag the maneuvers in order to hit with their strikes.

I like that idea - seems like a decent compromise. I'll look for an opportunity to give it a test in play and see how it turns out.

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2011, 08:15:56 PM »
While it makes sense for fists to help with attack rolls, I am against it for balance reasons.  You already get added stress on the weapon with the power.

That said, if someone wanted to homebrew a rule that:

The +2 added to the weapon value (or +3 etc) are added to weapons or fists skill instead, that would fly too.

In the end, on a successful attack you'd be doing the same amount of damage.  And I know that some people would balk at being able to hit easier... but keep in mind that stress is an abstract thing.

If you've ever fought with swords or fists, you know that fighting a stronger person... it hurts even to block.  It causes stress to avoid stress.

So if my players made a convincing argument for a house rule like this, I would probably allow it.  It would really make the inhumanly strong character feel more deadly too.
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Offline Becq

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2011, 09:10:13 PM »
In my opinion, the spirit of the mechanics for the strength powers are this: you get a bonus of +2 stress when relying on your strength to inflict damage, and you get a +1 to your roll when relying on your strength for any other purpose besides inflicting damage.

Note that most if not all of the time, Might does not modify your combat skill of choice (because your combat skill should be assumed to take into account your physical prowess), and therefore interpretation of the rule is moot.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2011, 03:22:41 AM »
It's not a terrible idea, but I'd rather not make Strength powers much stronger.

Maybe let the user choose between +1 to hit and +2 stress?

Eh. I wouldn't use this myself (given the way that it makes accuracy stunts obsolete and my belief that Strength is strong enough) but if you actually want to make Strength deadlier then it's probably a good idea.

And the "it hurts to block" thing is correct, in my experience.

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Re: Question about Inhuman Strength
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2011, 04:54:20 AM »
And the "it hurts to block" thing is correct, in my experience.

Yeah, it's one of those 'sort of' kind of things though.  While going at it, I don't really notice pain from a block until after the fight's over.  Mostly the pain comes later when I have time to start noticing the bruises.  Then again, I've never fought anyone with Inhuman Strength.  That I know of...
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