Grimmest Incite Emotion Character

[WillH]

Oh, and this might be a minor issue, but that Physical immunity power will cause a LOT of hunger stress.  As an 8 strength attack against your 4 discipline.

Something tells me this guy wouldn't be too worried about over feeding on people.

[ways and means]

It's a clever build.  Not totally certain if that stunt would really be valid by RAW for use with Incite Emotion, though.  Also, I'd probably never allow this build as a GM, simply because it's so clearly abusive of the rules.

That said, whether or not it stands up to an Evocation-specialized Wizard or Focused Practitioner pretty much comes down to rocket tag.  If Mr. Rage succeeds on his initial maneuver, he's invincible (sort of).  Of course, the wizard still has a much more versatile set of powers.  For example, an earth mage could just open up a pit under this guy and seal him in.

 
The stunts directly from the core book I didn't make it up for the build. A stunt which gives a +2 to mental attacks aimed at enraging people seems to almost be meant for incite emotion, there are very few ways to do mental damage so I have to assume the stunt was made knowing that it would probably be used with incite emotion.

"Gain +2 to any roll when deliberately trying to get someone angry with you".

The reason the build is munchkiny IMO is that it uses physical immunity to directly remove the only real penalty of this stunt which is that using it will lead to you getting attacked a lot but then you could argue that if you let anyone live you are also going to deal with the grudges that your actions cause.  

This is definatly the best aggro build becuase the character could compel for effect his enemies to attack only him leaving the rest of the party unmolested.

[devonapple]

It reminds me of the old Magic: the Gathering trick of placing Lure and Regeneration on a Thicket Basilisk.

[Michael Sandy]

With the +5 catch, it would only be a 3-point power. 

No, because when a vampire uses recovery or toughness, it still triggers feeding dependancy based on the power, not based on the refresh cost.

[Blackblade]

No, because when a vampire uses recovery or toughness, it still triggers feeding dependancy based on the power, not based on the refresh cost.

It does?  Where does it say that in the text?

[Tedronai]

This manifests as
an attack with a strength equal to the total
refresh cost of the abilities you used

Toughness, Recovery, and Immunity are written in such a way as to actually be separate powers from The Catch.
So, at best, it could be argued that if someone bypasses your Toughness power (Immunity included) via your Catch, that you could claim the rebate in your Feeding Dependency roll.

[Blackblade]

I would disagree with that interpretation of it, since The Catch is inherently useless without a corresponding toughness power. 

[Tedronai]

And yet that's how it's written.

Toughness abilities require you to define the
circumstances under which the ability is effective—
this is represented by a stunt attached
to your toughness abilities called the Catch,
defined below.

Houserule as you will.

[Slife]

And yet that's how it's written.
Houserule as you will.

Since it's defining the circumstances under which they're effective, rather than ineffective, the catch stunt gets used whenever your abilities actually work.

[Tedronai]

Since it's defining the circumstances under which they're effective, rather than ineffective, the catch stunt gets used whenever your abilities actually work.

Unfortunately, that's not actually how The Catch is written.

The Catch. You must specify something that
bypasses your Toughness abilities.

[UmbraLux]

Toughness, Recovery, and Immunity are written in such a way as to actually be separate powers from The Catch.
So, at best, it could be argued that if someone bypasses your Toughness power (Immunity included) via your Catch, that you could claim the rebate in your Feeding Dependency roll.

Since both are always on, you're comparing every hit against the Catch...it's still there whether in play or not as is the toughness power.  Deciding otherwise leaves you with the absurdity of having a bonus to your hunger roll if the only damage you took was Catch qualified.  "I was almost killed by the Cross wielding lunatic so I get a +3 to my Hunger roll..." 

If you're really tied to RAW, remember YS308 - "...intent precedes mechanics."

[Falar]

I really fall on the side where the Catch does reduce what you have to resist for feeding damage, but, looking over the inline example in Feeding Dependency, I gotta say there are reasons to go with Tedronai's interpretation.

For example, if you used Inhuman Strength and Inhuman Toughness in the scene, that’s a total of 4 refresh, so you’d be rolling your Discipline to meet or beat a target of 4.

Seeing as Feeding Dependency itself attaches to powers in the same way that the Catch does to Toughness powers and there's no argument over whether it reduces the amount of refresh you resist against, I'd actually think that it works the same way for Toughness. Once again, in the inline example, it didn't use the whole Toughness suite as the refresh total - it only used your specific powers within it that were used.

I'd say a hit through your Catch means you don't use whatever Toughness power, so really it's reducing the threshold by the total amount of your Toughness powers. However, if you were hit - even once - by an attack that your Toughness power was effective against, then you would have to resist against it's full value.


LIKE I SAID, I personally tend towards the Catch reduces, but it's pretty open to interpretation.

[Tedronai]

If you're really tied to RAW, remember YS308 - "...intent precedes mechanics."

I've made no argument as to the appropriateness of the RAW in this case, and would be quite sympathetic to houserules allowing The Catch to reduce the hunger attack.  Houseruling such things is well embraced by the system.  Just remember that that's what it is.

[Michael Sandy]

But when you use Physical immunity, you are using the full 8 points of its effect.  If it blocks a 6 weapon attack or just a 1 weapon attack, it is still completely blocking the attack.

Yes, if someone uses the Catch, you don't activate the feeding dependency.  But if you ARE using the power you are using the full 8 points of it.

[UmbraLux]

Yes.  My point was you use both toughness power and the catch every time. 

Whether the catch is met or not, you check it.  Whether damage is affected by toughness or not, you check it.  Consider it a box in a flow chart or an attribute check in a script.  It's done every time.  Unless of course you're simply randomly deciding when toughness and catch apply. 

Whether or not they're separate powers is moot.