I'm just not a good gm...

[CottbusFiles]

Hello DFRPG Board

I'm currently GMing a Dresden Files game and i really have some problems.

1. I'm constantly having problems with the investigation part of my games. Having the whole city to go looking for information seems to be to big for my players and they constantly lack ideas for finding clues.
The wizard in the party sometimes figures out ways to use his thaumaturgy to find clues but the ninja-detective-werecat character has problems using her skills to her advantage.
Another problem for me is that i'm bad at helping them figuring it out. How should i give them clues without going "yeah you just need to go to this place over there and you will find everything" - that would be boring.
I have no idea how they will try to find info so it's hard for me to plan that or to even know how they could get that info.
I have run good "hey, that's the problem" sessions and good action ones, it's that legwork and detective thing that troubles me.

2. I'm lazy. I'm constantly underprepared and have to run a lot of stuff on improv. That's okay for me but the game is lacking because of that. Any tips for GMs that don't like to plan that much ?

3. My PCs right now have a job from the Summer Barons of the city to find out why some Summer Elfs attacked a group of anti-mining demonstrants.
At the same time they had to find a group of missing persons. Clues lad them to a museum where they found a sorcerer, enthraling people. After chasing him through the museum and the streats they battled a troll he had called for help. The next day the wizard conjured a water spirit to find him. The spirit warned them that this guy is the Black Miller (a fairy tale figure from our region), a sorcerer in pact with the winter court of the sidhe. (Our city is in summers territory, they try to get in)
The next session will be about them storming his home and finding proof that he tricked the elfs.
He has his home in a puppet theatre (because it's scary)
I want to try something a bit different, the session will start with them, captured and bound to chairs while the miller laughs at them. Then cut to the morning before. Should i do that or is this to railroady because they could try any kind of security measure possible and will still be captured...
Anyway, i don't want them to capture or kill him because i want to use this guy in following sessions and he, as a caster, can be quite deadly to them.
What can i offer my PCs to give them a satisfying ending to this story arc ? He could maybe collapse the house arround them. They will have to get out of their binding and then have to find a way out. (but that isn't enough i think)
Please playground, do you have any idea what i could do ?

4. problem : We only have time to play 2-3 hours every week and i have problems using that time effectively. Sometimes we spend this time and not much happens in the story because they venture of in a "wrong" direction or just RP without much story happening. What can i do to make the most out of the limited gametime ?

[evileeyore]

Congratulations, you have completed step one of problem, Identify the Problem (and you did so in detial).

Step Two:  Decide whether it is a Problem that needs solving.

Being a poor DM isn't the end of everything.  Some people don't have what it takes, some great DMs are really bad players.  Take a few minutes and think about your situation:  Do you prefer playing?  Is DMing something you really want to do?  Do you feel a calling to it or is it a case of having to fill the role?


Now I'll try to address your individual questions:

1. I'm constantly having problems with the investigation part of my games. Having the whole city to go looking for information seems to be to big for my players and they constantly lack ideas for finding clues.
The wizard in the party sometimes figures out ways to use his thaumaturgy to find clues but the ninja-detective-werecat character has problems using her skills to her advantage.
Another problem for me is that i'm bad at helping them figuring it out. How should i give them clues without going "yeah you just need to go to this place over there and you will find everything" - that would be boring.
I have no idea how they will try to find info so it's hard for me to plan that or to even know how they could get that info.
I have run good "hey, that's the problem" sessions and good action ones, it's that legwork and detective thing that troubles me.

Just have them roll the dice!  If it's a "clue quest" then have an Investigator roll investigation and hand them a clue, if a Contact could give them a lead, have a high Contacts character make a roll!

Give them a few clues, the better the skill check the "better" the clue, and juct move it along.

I'll be honest, non-action is sometimes the hardest part to get and keep moving.  Don't get discourage, just take olde timey advice:  When in doubt Roll The Dice.

2. I'm lazy. I'm constantly underprepared and have to run a lot of stuff on improv. That's okay for me but the game is lacking because of that. Any tips for GMs that don't like to plan that much ?

I got nothing man.  I'm a "fly by the seat of my pants" type DM and thus any prep work aside from some sketchy and often misleading notes is anathema to me.


You say "That's okay for me but the game is lacking"...  is it lacking?  How?  If you can handle winging it, where do you feel it's not holding up?

3. My PCs right now have a job from the Summer Barons of the city to find out why some Summer Elfs attacked a group of anti-mining demonstrants.
At the same time they had to find a group of missing persons. Clues lad them to a museum where they found a sorcerer, enthraling people. After chasing him through the museum and the streats they battled a troll he had called for help. The next day the wizard conjured a water spirit to find him. The spirit warned them that this guy is the Black Miller (a fairy tale figure from our region), a sorcerer in pact with the winter court of the sidhe. (Our city is in summers territory, they try to get in)
The next session will be about them storming his home and finding proof that he tricked the elfs.
He has his home in a puppet theatre (because it's scary)
I want to try something a bit different, the session will start with them, captured and bound to chairs while the miller laughs at them. Then cut to the morning before. Should i do that or is this to railroady because they could try any kind of security measure possible and will still be captured...

That's a tough one.  My advice, don't ask us... it's your group.

Some groups have no problem with an In Media Res captures scene that jumps back to "How You Got There" storytelling.  Some will buck that plotline like a wild stallion.  Do you know your group well enough to determine which you've got?

If yes, and you think they'll go for it, do it.  If not, it might be best try that sort of move after you've learned how comfortable they are.

Also, you could just ask them if they mind starting a scene captured, knowing they have a chance to escape.  If they're okay with that, they'll probably be okay with knowing capture is envitable.  How you handle the capture then becomes a measure of how much being captured is the PCs idea, and how much was they were overpowered.

Anyway, i don't want them to capture or kill him because i want to use this guy in following sessions and he, as a caster, can be quite deadly to them.

I got nothing here, I usually handle those situations as they arise.

4. problem : We only have time to play 2-3 hours every week and i have problems using that time effectively. Sometimes we spend this time and not much happens in the story because they venture of in a "wrong" direction or just RP without much story happening. What can i do to make the most out of the limited gametime ?

Are the players having fun?  Are they complaining about not "getting anywhere"?  If no, then unless you are on a timetable (your moving soon, it's a college group, etc) don;t worry about it.  The DMs job is present a story and help the players have fun.

If your not having fun then you can try to gently guide the PCs, start using a few skill checks for the PCs to discover where they've gone astray with info, etc.  Try to avoid the heavy handed "NPC points them in the direction" method, use more clues, hints, etc.  Avoid red herrings completely, players will naturally come up with themselves.

[crusher_bob]

I like to keep this thread around, for mysterious encounters.

It's usually a bad idea to try to wing 'scenes', for quick improv, you are better off going: "this is what the NPC wants, this is what he can do" and then generating interesting stuff from there, rather than saying, "And now, the PCs scene where the PCs chase the bag guy will happen"

If you really want to keep an NPC around, remember than NPCs can use the concession mechanics too.  You can effectively offer a bribe to the players to let the NPC get away.  That's one of the things that the concession mechanics are there for.

If you want to specifically try improving your timing, you can try a game or two of Pupperland, which is supposedly limited to one hour sessions.  Remember that the skills of the players are at keeping things moving along are important too.  The players also want to try to get something done in an hour in Puppetland, so want to push to keep things going. 

[kertain]

Investigation and "who done it" games are rather hard to run to begin with.
I think the best way to handle that is to have an idea of what happened, but also be open to the direction your players go.
You might find that they come up with some pretty interesting ideas (some you might not think of) on their own. If its a fun idea and your good with improv, then go in that direction.

Having multiple endings, a list of all the NPCs/bad guys, possible murders/kidnappers in your head will help when they take a sudden turn. If you let them lead the story along, then they won't get stuck in a corner as often. If there is only one "right answer" they might never figure it out. In the end they will never know that "Bob the Janitor" wasn't your originally intended murderer/kidnapper, they will just think you are super clever and feel good about a job well done
In other words see where they lead you and build the story around that.

It hard to balance rail-roady and plot elements, but your players should always be able to figure something out. If they are clever it should be rewarded even if they manged to kill your big baddie too soon. Then again there is nothing wrong with him having a super-duper backup plan to get away and then implementing that, or reenforcement show up and forcing the group to make a choice to fight or leave. Then again..they might surprise you and disrupt even that plan. In that case you just need to roll with the punches and figure something out.

That all said: Certain events can and will happen regardless. A certain building could collapse with a controlled demolition, certain NPCs may die in a fire, or the Big Baddie might have certain plans thought out well in advance.
The world will keep moving and your players can't control everything, but should at least have a chance

my 2c

[admiralducksauce]

Anyway, i don't want them to capture or kill him because i want to use this guy in following sessions and he, as a caster, can be quite deadly to them.

Three pieces of advice for this snippet here.
1.  Have him make concessions early if need be.  Keep his absolute fate out of the players' hands if you can, by having an escape plan, keeping a FP in reserve or what have you to make an escape-friendly declaration, and so on.
2.  The flipside to this is if the players DO Take him Out and decide to kill him, let it go.  The dude dies and what of it?  Your plans as a GM do not survive contact with your group.  Embrace this, tell yourself that NPC was a shitty NPC anyway and be glad your players punked his ass and hopefully had fun making necklaces out of his intestines.
3.  The NPC CAN be deadly to your players, but because killing is a choice in DFRPG he doesn't HAVE to be deadly.  Remember Taken Out is not equal to dead.

I want to try something a bit different, the session will start with them, captured and bound to chairs while the miller laughs at them. Then cut to the morning before. Should i do that or is this to railroady because they could try any kind of security measure possible and will still be captured...

Bribe your group with FP to start off this way.  They need to trust that you're not out to screw them like this, you just want to try something different for a session's starting scene.  And you need to trust them that they'll go along with it.  If you don't feel that trust, then don't try this scenario.  There are no rules you can invoke that will make a semi-predetermined flashback/capture scene work if the entire group isn't onboard with it and ready to go along.

[Richard_Chilton]

One of the hardest thing to grasp about the DFRPG is that the PC can rarely go off in the wrong direction.  If they start heading away from the plot and making Declaration then the plot changes.

Neutral Grounds (the first posted scenario for the game) is a good example of this.  It's a Who Dun It using the setting from Your Story where you are given a murder victim, some NPCs, the mostly finished PCs - and that's it.  Reading how to run it you are told that most of the times it's been run the murderer was Blah, but sometimes the Red Herring takes central stage and the PCs make declarations that make him the murderer.

Yes, the plot is a murder mystery where the GM doesn't know for sure who did it.


So if the PCs haven't found the clues they need and are looking in the wrong places, change the clues.  It can still be the same "Big Bad" but if they are ignoring the signs pointing them to the bar where the clues are and instead looking in a bookstore then put the clues in the bookstore.

Richard

[devonapple]

What I end up doing is setting up a scene, and following the players' lead - they generally take it in an interesting direction solely out of enlightened self-interest. Then, when there is still undiscovered important plot for them to uncover, I loop back and start making things happen to the players.

There are a variety of ways to do this, but you generally want to focus on raising the stakes as the villains' machinery (or whatever the plot happens to be - it doesn't need to be villain-focused) continues to chug:
Witness/allies/etc. start disappearing;
NPCs approach the players, desperate for help or a renewed focus on their problems;
Formerly hostile or uncooperative witnesses have a change of heart and approach the NPCs with a deal or a setup;
Enemies show up to menace or intimidate the players;
The police draw a line between the players and some of the crimes they seem to be asking about, and start taking an interest;
The villain outright frames the characters.

[Bruce Coulson]

If everyone is having fun, you're doing okay.

If someone is NOT having fun (that includes you), find out why, and what would make the game more fun, then try to include that in future sessions.

My method as improv is to develop colourful NPCs with striking personalities, and see what the players do in the interaction.  If the players seemed unimpressed, the NPC fades to the background; if the players are intrigued, and keep coming back to that NPC, they start becoming more 'real'.  Prior NPCs that have been part of story re-appear later on, setting a sense of continuity (suggestion; keep notes, lots of them).  As the campaign evolves, those NPCs may have story threads that the PCs need to address, or ask for help.

[Chris_Fougere]

For investigative style games (which are the only sort I really plot at all, greatly preferring to wing it) I build my story backwards and make sure to leave a clear, concise "clue trail".  There is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing more frustrating to a player or a GM then when the characters/players don't know where to go either due to too little information or too much (leading to the inevitable chase down all the red herrings scenario).  Pelgrane Press' Esoterrorists and Trail of Cthulhu have exceptional information on running an investigative game.

If prep work isn't your thing (lord knows its not mine) then you really do need to hone your improvisation skills as they will make or break your game.  Think of things you can do for the PCs (or to them).  Has it been a while since there's been some action?  Then when they go off wherever throw something at them.  Maybe they're investigating an abandoned warehouse for some reason unrelated to your plot but they went there anyway.  Maybe there's some ghouls there eating dinner.  What do the ghouls have to do with the plot?  Who knows.  Why are they eating that person?  Not important.  As long as you arrive at the answers slightly before the players do, then you'll be alright.

[Sanctaphrax]

I have no non-redundant advice for problems #1, 3, or 4.

But I think I can help with problem #2. I recommend using other people's stuff. There are a lot of characters and stunts and powers and spells and locations available for use on this forum, and I suggest that you use them. It find that it works pretty well, although truth be told a lot of the stuff I take from here was actually written by me.

[sinker]

I do a lot of seat of my pants stuff too and this is how I do it: Know the system, setting and city as well as you can. Familiarize yourself with the ladder and a lot of the sample monsters so that you have a good idea how difficult/easy something should be at any given time. Be "in" the setting as much as you can, so that you can respond with stuff that really fits what you're going for and have a good idea of how the city/setting lives and breathes so that when a player does something you can simply respond. Look at the GMing chapters in your story for great methods for all of these things. You picked the right system to go in with nary a plan.

[BumblingBear]

I think it's good to have a resource and an easily accessible database to get all of your thoughts together and such.

I use Obsidian Portal.  http://www.obsidianportal.com/

This is my first time GMing, and with no false modesty I think I am doing a pretty decent job.  That said, I know it's because I do a lot of prep work and stay one (or six) steps ahead of my PC with plot and NPCs.  We've been playing for a month and a half now for 7 hour sessions a week, and my PCs have still not met half the NPCs I've statted.

[devonapple]

Another good resource is GoogleDocs. One can even open and edit documents on a smartphone using GoogleDocs, so it can be a great option for centralizing campaign data. I'll look into Obsidian Portal though!

[wednesdayboy]

1. I'm constantly having problems with the investigation part of my games. Having the whole city to go looking for information seems to be to big for my players and they constantly lack ideas for finding clues.
The wizard in the party sometimes figures out ways to use his thaumaturgy to find clues but the ninja-detective-werecat character has problems using her skills to her advantage.
Another problem for me is that i'm bad at helping them figuring it out. How should i give them clues without going "yeah you just need to go to this place over there and you will find everything" - that would be boring.
I have no idea how they will try to find info so it's hard for me to plan that or to even know how they could get that info.
I have run good "hey, that's the problem" sessions and good action ones, it's that legwork and detective thing that troubles me.

I recommend the players have an in-character discussion on what they want/need to investigate and how they should go about it.  This will make you aware of the general direction and tactics they are thinking of using.  Since you'll know their overall gameplan you can see what cracks need to be filled so that your plot is revealed within the general gameplan framework that they provided.

The other general piece of advice for an investigation campaign is to make sure that the investigation continues forward with each session.  As a player in an investigating campaign there's nothing more frustrating to me than coming up with no clues.  And to tie it in with that first recommendation, if you know my gameplan you should be able to plan out spots to give clues so it feels natural.

My last piece of advice is purely my preference but I hate getting information simply on an Investigation or Contacts roll.  It feels like I didn't use any creativity or brainpower to earn those clues.  If the clues I find are worked in more organically I feel a sense of accomplishment and enjoy the investigative campaign much more.

2. I'm lazy. I'm constantly underprepared and have to run a lot of stuff on improv. That's okay for me but the game is lacking because of that. Any tips for GMs that don't like to plan that much ?

This sort of applies to #1 as well but our GM often asks for an idea what our characters plan to do in the upcoming session.  The players are by no means required to stick to that plan but having an intended plan helps the GM focus on what material to prepare and how to make sure another step to the investigation is made.

So if you ask us what we want to do this week and we tell you we want our characters to investigate the Shady Nightclub, you can focus your preparation efforts into the Nightclub, the NPCs who should be there, the clues that you're going to give away there, and how the clues can/will be revealed.  Maybe we will get distracted and not end up at the Nightclub but if we stick to the plan you have a well-prepared session without having to break your back.

That said, the worst campaigns I've played in were terrible because the GMs did not put effort into preparing their games and often the sessions were improvised and thrown together at the last minute.  My initial reaction to your comments about being "constantly underprepared" and the "game is lacking because of that", was that if you're unwilling or unable to put the proper preparation into the game that you should step aside for a GM that is willing or able to put in the effort.  And I'm sure that some GMs can improv perfectly and run an excellent game with no preparation.  But in my experience as a player I was interested in playing in a new game with a GM who would prepared well than continuing in a game where the unprepared GM found ways to mitigate their lack of preparation.

[Bruce Coulson]

It's a balancing act.  On one hand, you don't want to be so prepared that you're completely thrown off-center when the players do something you don't expect, or go somewhere you didn't plan for.  On the other, if you're constantly scrambling to find something for the players to do, your campaign lacks consistency.

I generally create a few NPCs, some themes, some key previous events, and an initial plot or threat.  Then I let the campaign evolve organically from what the players do.  Usually, the players will drive the campaign; they suddenly decide that 'X' is vitally important, and so, voila!  A new session involving what I orignally put in as a minor background piece.  Having a major villain who works in the shadows, using pawns to threaten the PCs, works well also.

This is where the FATE character creation system is so helpful.  Your players are already connected, and have some built-in hooks with their Aspects.  Let the major villain use some proxies to work over those Troubles if you're stuck for an idea.