Author Topic: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?  (Read 4913 times)

Offline citadel97501

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Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« on: April 27, 2011, 05:30:37 AM »
Hello all,

I was just thinking couldn't you use a shotgun to parry an unarmed strike, or a sword swing?  It is a big piece of metal with some wood?  I just don't think you need a stunt to use a one to parry, now I definitely can see that you might get a compel from your ST/GM, but it just seems reasonable to me. 

Please give me your opinions?

P.S.
No, I am not suggesting that you get to use the Gun skill for this, or that it should apply to all Guns.

Offline Tsunami

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 05:49:55 AM »
It would be an improvised Melee Weapon.
So it would probably damage and eventually destroy the Rifle after a few defenses.

Other than that i see no problem if you do that once in a while.

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 07:50:45 AM »
It would be an improvised Melee Weapon.
So it would probably damage and eventually destroy the Rifle after a few defenses.

Other than that i see no problem if you do that once in a while.

I pretty much agree with this.

Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline citadel97501

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 07:56:21 AM »
I wonder what the stunt would look like to make a Shotgun no longer an improvised weapon, seems like a better option than making the Holy Shotgun of Antioch (Item of Power). 

Offline toturi

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 08:12:37 AM »
I pretty much agree with this.
How so? I do not have much experience with shotguns per se, but most modern rifles are pretty sturdy. Granted that they are probably not designed to take hits from a Supernatural/Mythic Strength character, but any weapon would not be in good condition no matter if it is improvised or not in this situation.
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Offline Todjaeger

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 08:44:43 AM »
How so? I do not have much experience with shotguns per se, but most modern rifles are pretty sturdy. Granted that they are probably not designed to take hits from a Supernatural/Mythic Strength character, but any weapon would not be in good condition no matter if it is improvised or not in this situation.

Modern firearms can be fairly tough.  At the same time, some are rather flimsy (think Kel Tec).  Using most modern firearms as some form of melee weapon, whether it is for offensive or defensive use, it most likely going to throw things out of alignment after a few good, solid impacts.  Particularly if it something auto or semi-auto, the rounds might not feeding into the chamber properly.  While the physical gun itself wouldn't most likely be destroyed outright, it wouldn't be able to be safely fired either.

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Offline citadel97501

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 08:57:28 AM »
Sounds like a solid reason to take craftsmanship for this combatant to me. . . Ack, damn ghouls bent my, Baby. . .

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 10:36:52 AM »
Modern firearms can be fairly tough.  At the same time, some are rather flimsy (think Kel Tec).  Using most modern firearms as some form of melee weapon, whether it is for offensive or defensive use, it most likely going to throw things out of alignment after a few good, solid impacts.  Particularly if it something auto or semi-auto, the rounds might not feeding into the chamber properly.  While the physical gun itself wouldn't most likely be destroyed outright, it wouldn't be able to be safely fired either.

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Offline Vryce

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 12:41:03 PM »
The US Army still teaches bacic combat skills with rifles.

I can remember Learning to attack with both sides, Bayonet and Bytt Stock, and to block income attacks.

food for thought
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Offline Papa Gruff

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 01:47:34 PM »
The US Army still teaches bacic combat skills with rifles.

I can remember Learning to attack with both sides, Bayonet and Bytt Stock, and to block income attacks.

food for thought

Probably part of the reason why the army also trains its soldiers in maintaining their guns on their own, aye? ... just kidding.

I probably wouldn't compel a player to break his/her gun partly because I think swinging a rifle as a club has something cool about it and partly because I have difficulties seeing where the fun or interest is in it.

Besides: don't we have a nice table for breaking stuff? Couldn't we adapt it to this problem if we have to? Let's just take the Deliberate Hexing Table (YW258). I'd say if you inflict the appropriate amount of stress with the attack the weapon could have a malfunction. For most modern guns that'd be 4 Stress while older ones could go up to 5 Stress because of their heavier sturdier build... But why bother really. Let it come down to narration. If the player decides to narrate it that way, slide him a fate point for troubles to come...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 01:49:06 PM by Papa Gruff »
in omnia peratus! ... wait a minute! ... to give anybody a rucksack? ... DAMN CORRESPONDENCE COURSE!

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 02:09:40 PM »
The US Army still teaches bacic combat skills with rifles.

I can remember Learning to attack with both sides, Bayonet and Bytt Stock, and to block income attacks.

food for thought

I'm x Airborne Infantry.

I maintain what I said.

First of all, most weapons are not built as robustly as a battle rifle.  Second, the parries you do with a battle rifle are learned to be used against someone else with a bayonet on the end of a rifle, because if they have bullets and you don't, you're pretty much screwed.

The thrusting action of a rifle/bayonet-spear is NOT the same as a full armed swing of a sword or a baseball bat.  

Thrusting with a bayonet won't hurt a weapon - all the force is heading straight back into the weapon where it's strongest-  the line of the barrel.  Think wood grain that goes one way.  Once you start hammering the SIDE of the weapon, shenanigans happen.

I happen to know this because I've seen a number of weapons get burned in during my day.  Being burned in means the weapon wasn't rigged to the jump harness correctly, and when parachuting, a soldier would pull his release tab to drop his ruck 50-200 feet up in the air... and the weapon just fell.  In a bag.

Sometimes, it wasn't pretty.

There is a reason why folks use rubberduckies for bayonet training too.  If they used real rifles instead of the dummy rifles, each basic training class would need a new set of beater rifles.

Last but not least, I don't think that bayonet training is still taught because it is practical in any way.  It's still taught for the same reason that cherries have to sound off with "Blood Blood make the grass grow green!"  - it gets young kids used to the idea of killing.

I would model firearms blocking similarly to hexing.  The older a weapon is, the less likely it is to fail after blocking.


Muskets you can block pretty well with.  A Steyr Aug... not so much.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 02:11:16 PM by BumblingBear »
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline ways and means

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2011, 02:22:19 PM »
Have you heard when they first tested one of the early line of assault rifles in the uk, they got the scots guard to test it and where somewhat mythed when the weapons came back with bent barrels because the Scots Guard had been using it for bayonet practice.
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Offline Vryce

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 02:22:52 PM »
I agree with most you said

Was X combat medic, and have see a tangle or streamer once or twice... agree no pretty.

But was thinking more of a block with the butt of the stock

sword comes down, you swing the butt of the stock to knock the weapon off track.

a direct sword down, with rifle held in a staff block would hurt a lot.  lot depends on how you think about the block.

On a side note I think my Mossberg shotgun would hold up quite well, but again would depend on the weapon and such
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Offline Wolfwood2

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2011, 07:06:05 PM »
This argument is trending a bit too much to realism.  How do you break a gun in-game?  You have the antagonist make a Declaration with Guns, Weapons, or Fists (whcihever is appropriate) that his latest blow has imposed the 'Broken' Aspect on the gun that was being used to parry his melee attack.

The PC can make a Craftsmanship roll to remove the Aspect.

Offline evileeyore

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Re: Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2011, 07:21:05 PM »
Muskets you can block pretty well with.  A Steyr Aug... not so much.

I can't recomend a Mosin-Nagent enough in this category.


AK vs AR vs Mosin-Nagent