Author Topic: Internal "Sponsored" Magic  (Read 2522 times)

Offline Drachasor

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Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« on: January 21, 2011, 01:44:13 AM »
What do people think of "sponsored" magic without a sponsor proper?  Say you are a changeling, son/daughter of one of the elder Sidhe, so the magic is just part of you.  Or you (in the case for a character I've thought about) are the son of a god, so the magic reflects that that parentage.  Or you are just prophesied to be special or powerful in some manner magically, so the sponsored magic reflects that.  You'd still get compels, they'd still work the same way, they'd just be compels that reflect part of your inner nature in one way or another.  So mechanically it would be just like normal sponsored magic, except flavored in a different way (one could even consider how the book does Soulfire a lot like this, given that people with Soulfire don't seem to have the blatant compels of Summer/Winter Knights, etc).

I brought this up a couple times today in other threads, but I thought it was worth discussing on its own.

Offline Amseriah

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 01:49:47 AM »
I like it.  It makes perfect sense to me, especially the compels being your inhuman heritage influencing you.

Offline sinker

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 04:20:10 AM »
I don't see any reason you couldn't use the sponsored magic mechanic for other things. I can see issues with that specific adaptation of sponsored magic. Like one of the downsides with sponsored magic is that it can be restricted or withdrawn entirely if it doesn't fit the sponsor's agenda or if the sponsor simply desires it. That's not well represented in a personal sponsored magic (you will always be within your own agenda). Another issue is that of debt. I can see where you are going with the compels to return debt (and I like it), but where is the fate point coming from? How are they gaining that additional burst of power?

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 04:43:08 AM »
I don't see any reason you couldn't use the sponsored magic mechanic for other things. I can see issues with that specific adaptation of sponsored magic. Like one of the downsides with sponsored magic is that it can be restricted or withdrawn entirely if it doesn't fit the sponsor's agenda or if the sponsor simply desires it. That's not well represented in a personal sponsored magic (you will always be within your own agenda). Another issue is that of debt. I can see where you are going with the compels to return debt (and I like it), but where is the fate point coming from? How are they gaining that additional burst of power?

And I think all those things can work with a purely internalized source.

If you accrue a lot of debt, then that means you are, in some manner, acting against your nature.  If you had then you'd be repaying that debt.  Eventually continuing acting against your nature while drawing heavily on your inner power (racking up debt to empower your spells) will weaken you until you just can't cast anything at all.  It's like an introvert going to big parties day after day and being social.  He'll get drained doing that and need to recover from all that annoying socialization.  In the case of internally sponsored magic, instead of needing a nap and a few days alone to recover, you'll need to take some time and do whatever that particular aspect of your nature needs to make you feel better.

Also, you can act against your own agenda in various ways.  Remember, Sponsored Magic is kind of like an aspect.  No one aspect, even the High Concept, fully represents someone.  Any PC is going to face thing where parts of their nature come in conflict or they just come in conflict with the best way to get things done. 
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  The part of him that represents really wants him to lay waste to the evil all around him and will cause a compel just like an aspect would.  This might well tie in with one of his aspects, leading to what is essentially a scenario where multiple aspects are compelled (and hence he'd have to spend TWO fate points to not do something kind of crazy).

As for where this power is coming from, one could say the same for any wizard tapping an aspect.  Where do fate points come from? 
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  Or if the character is a demigod, then one could say it is his divine nature that the character is tapping into somehow.  Or they could have some sort of prophesy about them that foretells of them having great power due to some sort of mystic alignment at their birth (or whatever).  There are lots of ways to propose where this inner reserve of power comes from.

Offline Tsunami

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 11:53:17 AM »
Actually, there is already an example of Sponsorless Sponsored Magic in the Rules.

Kemmlerian Necromancy.
The Power is not given by Kemmler. It's not even power gained from ones parentage. It's simply a use of power that brings certain benefits (Sponsored magic bonusses), but carries certain consequences with it.(Debt compels)


Soulfire is actually not a good example for internal sponsored magic without an outside source.
Yes, the energy comes from yourself, but access to the that energy is only possible through the grace of the sponsor.


Anyways, an internal, i.e. sponsorless, form of sponsored magic is easily done. The Agenda is then simply an integral part of the power itself. Incurring debt would then reflect the influence the power has on the character. And as has already been said, there would be no mechanical difference to normal Sponsored Magic.

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 12:14:59 PM »
Soulfire is actually not a good example for internal sponsored magic without an outside source.
Yes, the energy comes from yourself, but access to the that energy is only possible through the grace of the sponsor.

It's not a perfect example as it is initially granted by an outside source.  If we go by the books (and I trust I am being sufficiently vague here), the rules regarding debt and overuse seem adequately governed by internal forces. 
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  In this sense it is a lot like an internal source of power rather than some of the more classic examples like Summer or Winter magic.

Offline sinker

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 08:54:24 PM »
I still have thematic issues with this. I think a better question then the one I asked earlier (and that better frames the question) isn't where does the power come from, but why do they not have it all the time?

Otherwise you've made good points, and I could see it working.

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Internal "Sponsored" Magic
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 11:08:53 PM »
I still have thematic issues with this. I think a better question then the one I asked earlier (and that better frames the question) isn't where does the power come from, but why do they not have it all the time?

Otherwise you've made good points, and I could see it working.

At a basic level, when you get a point of debt it is like you spent a fate point.  So where that power comes from is very similar to asking where fate points come from.  Both are things you can "use up" since you can accrue too much debt.  Restoring the thematic power is different than restoring fate points in some ways.  Both you can restore via compels.  Fate points can also be restored by time (e.g. at the beginning of each session).  Essentially, you can think of an internal sponsor as part of your character's magical spark.  It's like a magical fire inside of you, then you can reach in, grab a piece of it, and use it to help you out.  Using this energy diminishes the fire, and you can only strengthen that fire by doing specific activities that strengthen it; a kind of sympathetic magic to refuel your batteries.  Naturally, if your batteries run too low, then you can even use the "waste heat" to power magical effects and so lose access to the magic.