Author Topic: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?  (Read 2064 times)

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« on: August 16, 2010, 07:11:13 PM »
Trying to discuss this in general enough terms to not breach the story-ideas policy; if I have erred here, by all means correct me.

I have a plot which in very broad outline looks like the following.

There is an important piece of information that opens a way to a game-changer for a particular balance of power; an artifact which if found and puzzled out could conceivably give nigh-absolute power within the relevant contect.  The antagonists of the piece are taking out people who have leads to this piece of information. (As well as doing a lot of other stuff to camouflage that this is what they are doing.  High collateral damage, the occasional robbery, the occasional assassination disguised as a robbery gone wrong, the occasional robbery disguised as a bungled attempt to make an assassination look like a robbery gone wrong... )

The protagonist starts off investigating all of the above, figures out what the antagonists are really up to, obtains the piece of information, and hence the story moves on to both sides potentitally having access to the game-changer and competing for it, fate of the universe at stake, etc. etc.  and to the resolution of that conflct. The folks who have been doing the assassinations and mindgames etc are much smaller potatoes in the general scheme of things.  The conclusion of the story as currently envisioned is much more about the actual game-changer than about the things the protagonist is looking into to begin with.

The question is: would it work for you for the story to shift in scale from "investigation into odd rash of murders and disappearances and so on" to "fate of the world at stake", and if so, how much of the book would feel reasonable to you to devote to the initial investigation without it feeling like a cheat or a disappointment for it to then become something that different ?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 08:54:37 PM by neurovore »
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Offline Aakaakaak

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 08:09:54 PM »
Everything starts out as something rational and normal. I would definitely start out as some "semi-strange" robberies/murders, then leave hints along the way. Maybe add clues up to about halfway through the book. Maybe the protagonist comes to the realization of what he's been finding the pieces of, or someone he saves is able to tell him what's going on?
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Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 08:55:49 PM »
Everything starts out as something rational and normal.

I should maybe mention that the setting for this is a long way from 20th-century contemporary reality to begin with...
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Offline Gruud

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 12:20:31 AM »
I think this is something that has been done before (not your idea, the progression you describe) and I think the key is that the level of unknown importance has to grow gradually along the way.

Put another way, I think your protaganist has to start out thinking "this is just the normal stuff", etc and then begin coming to a realization (along with the reader) that "hey, maybe there's more to this that I thought", then on to "wow, this could really be something important", and finally, "holy crap, this is a REALLY BIG DEAL".

I'm not so sure your readers will be able to make the jump from "small potatoes" straight to the "whole enchilada" without some hand holding (and well placed revelations)along the way.

Offline belial.1980

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 01:09:59 AM »

The question is: would it work for you for the story to shift in scale from "investigation into odd rash of murders and disappearances and so on" to "fate of the world at stake", and if so, how much of the book would feel reasonable to you to devote to the initial investigation without it feeling like a cheat or a disappointment for it to then become something that different ?


Yes. The shift works. Love it, in fact. (Have a similar escalation in the draft I just finished.) I've seen this kind of shift plenty of times in books and movies. Just off the top of my head,
(click to show/hide)
all use a similar shift from localized trouble to something that could impact the fate of the world. So, no worries there.

As for how much time to dedicate to the different aspects of your story—I think it just depends on your pacing, character arc, etc. You'd mentioned that the story you envisioned is much more about the game-changer than the assassinations and whatnot. If that's the case, I'd recommend moving it along briskly to the point where the story becomes about the competition for this artifact. (It seems like this artifact serves as a type of McGuffin, correct?)
I recommend checking out Dan Wells' presentation on story structure if you get the chance. (It's on youtube.) He discusses an approach to writing that involves using two "pinches." Each "pinch" is a major turning point in the story. He defines the first pinch as the point of the story where the characters realize that they're dealing with more than what they bargained for at the story's outset. This sounds like it might be relevant to your question, so you may want to check it out and see if you can apply any of it to your WIP.
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Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 02:53:22 AM »
Yes. The shift works. Love it, in fact. (Have a similar escalation in the draft I just finished.) I've seen this kind of shift plenty of times in books and movies. Just off the top of my head,
(click to show/hide)
all use a similar shift from localized trouble to something that could impact the fate of the world. So, no worries there.

I suppose if the terms of the description were broad enough to fit that many examples, at least I've stayed within the story-idea policy...
 
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As for how much time to dedicate to the different aspects of your story—I think it just depends on your pacing, character arc, etc. You'd mentioned that the story you envisioned is much more about the game-changer than the assassinations and whatnot. If that's the case, I'd recommend moving it along briskly to the point where the story becomes about the competition for this artifact.

The thing is, though, that the world is going to be strange and new to a reader coming to this first; the running around researching the assassinations is pretty much the only opportunity I have to show the readers what "normal" looks like in this before everything goes weird for the protagonist as well, so I need some degree of establishing that for the change to have any impact.

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(It seems like this artifact serves as a type of McGuffin, correct?)

Arguably, in the context of this story; its existence is a looming presence over later events that probably do not go in this story, and it will eventually get used several books further on.

Quote
I recommend checking out Dan Wells' presentation on story structure if you get the chance. (It's on youtube.)

Thank you.

Quote
He discusses an approach to writing that involves using two "pinches." Each "pinch" is a major turning point in the story. He defines the first pinch as the point of the story where the characters realize that they're dealing with more than what they bargained for at the story's outset. This sounds like it might be relevant to your question, so you may want to check it out and see if you can apply any of it to your WIP.

That sounds a little bit like a variant on Jim's notion of Big Middle; myself, I tend to think that a plot usually needs a solid anchor every 50,000 wordsish, which might at the length this one looks like mean one anchor or two. (I've written things where it meant eight.)
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Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 02:56:46 AM »
I think this is something that has been done before (not your idea, the progression you describe) and I think the key is that the level of unknown importance has to grow gradually along the way.

True.

OK, using a DF plot structure as an example; I think what I am thinking of is more, could GP be made as satisfying to readers if, as soon as we had Bianca's party and the big reveal on why the Nightmare had been sent after Harry, the Nightmare, having been a plot focus to that point, entirely disappeared from the text and it was all about Harry vs. Bianca.  Because in my setting, once they figure out what the artifact is and where, they go approximately two thousand lightyears away from the bunch of strictly planet-bound assassins who have been the antag's tools to this point, and somebody else entirely handles the job of catching them, which is strictly a minor loose end.
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Offline Gruud

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 10:51:18 AM »
I think the way to handle that bit is to not allow the reader to become too invested in the outcome of the "catching the assasins" part.

I'm not quite sure how you do that, but ...  ;)

Part of it would be, I guess, makng them faceless cogs in the wheel. Don't let any of them stand out, keep them all nameless, etc.

Beyond that, maybe use some (plot) device that is present in the first bits, that seems to carry the protagonists through the assasins part, but also makes it through to the second part.

That way, they may not even notice that the assasins are "missing".

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 04:37:08 PM »
I think the way to handle that bit is to not allow the reader to become too invested in the outcome of the "catching the assasins" part.

I'm not quite sure how you do that, but ...  ;)

Part of it would be, I guess, makng them faceless cogs in the wheel. Don't let any of them stand out, keep them all nameless, etc.

That should be straightforward, as I do not think any of them will actually appear on screen at all.

Quote
Beyond that, maybe use some (plot) device that is present in the first bits, that seems to carry the protagonists through the assasins part, but also makes it through to the second part.

There'll definitely be continuity in the protagonist and associates and some mentor/apprentice stuff going on there.
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Offline prophet224

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Re: plot shape balance; would this work for you ?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 02:16:24 PM »
Faceless cogs really ought to work, but make sure that it all ties in tightly so it doesn't look like an obvious distraction. Even if the 'cogs' are all killed off, for example, they still have to have a clear motivation for having been involved at all.

On the 'setting the setting' :) part, sci-fi and fantasy readers are generally somewhat more willing to give you some time when they first enter your world. While I do think that you need to move it along pretty quickly and get the cogs out of the way, you can pack a great deal of setting information into one or two chapters. If you only have one main character (depending on POV and such) you may not need much more than that to hit the key points of your setting as well as key character traits.

So where a non-familiar reader gets tripped up, key words quickly build structure in the mind of someone familiar with the genre.

"As a partner, he was a pain, and if I didn't feel so bad about the first time, I'd have killed him again." Is an example of a phrase that has a bunch of info, both character and setting-wise.

Ok... I'm getting off track. Anyway, I think it should work fine. Just get it moving quickly.
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