Directing summoned creatures- demons familiars and guardians

[Ihadris]

Hi guys, Im hoping some of you might be able to help me figure out some mechanics here.

 After reading various topics here involving 'summoner' characters and one of my players approaching me saying he would like to build a character who is protected by a guardian construct that is bound to him, much in the same way as Wellington is to Evan Montorose, I have realised I have no idea of how to handle this sort of thing in game.

I have read the section on summoning and binding several times. I have read the section on Bob and I have read the forum thread over on RPG.net about familiars the difference here is that I am interested in players directing bound spirits in combat.

How should this be handled? My major concern is that it effectivly gives PCs two characters to play with in combat situations.

Thoughts I had-
-The gm playing the summoned entity rather than the player and the player having to use a manuever to direct the entity to defend him or attack specific targets for example
-The player having to make conviction rolls to keep the entity in check

Any advice you can give is much appreciated.
Ihadris

[Deadmanwalking]

The entity should be an NPC, though an allied one. Surely you've had your PCs fight with allies at their side before? Handle it like that. Also, if it's a major part of their character, make sure they have an Aspect for it, they can then use Fate Points to aid it, and (if you arrange it right, something like "Mongo Handles My Fighting") you can Compel them to have it be unavailable for one reason or another.

[Korwin]

Good question. Will be looking forward to answers from the others.

Here mine:
Did the Char. bind the Construct himself or did he get it from someone?

I will be using this HR for Summoned (or Constructed) Creatures myself:

The Summoning Rituals (Demons or Magical Constructs) Complexity is Refresh cost x 2.
(Containment and Binding Ritual is be still based of Conviction)

For an permanent Creature I would say he used all shifts for duration and non for Complexity...
if I wanted to limit the power of the creature.

A permanent Creature should be reflected as an Aspect.
And this Aspect can be compelled to make the Creature misbehave.

Ordering I would think is as simple as speaking new orders. Supplement action?

[Ihadris]

Surely you've had your PCs fight with allies at their side before?

I've never run a game before- I'm preparing for my first game now. Although your advice makes me wonder if I had perhaps been over thinking this.  I keep forgetting the versatility of aspects.

Did the Char. bind the Construct himself or did he get it from someone?

The players idea was that it was already, permenantly, bound to serve his family and the he 'inherits' it. He is willing for it to be his main, if not only, method of attack and that the guardian would take basic commands such as attacking a certain target or defending the player/ another ally.

My concern at this point is the Guardian having its own stress track. Its quite obvious that it should be so but if summoning this guardian is the focus of the players character then he is regularly going to have two stress tracks running around- surely a huge benefit and one Im not sure how to balance out.

[Deadmanwalking]

Don't worry so much, just handle it as an NPC. 


Though in fairness, something restricting it's movement or behavior somewhat (like Wellington's being bound to Montrose Manor, if a bit less restrictive, since he's relying on it more), might be in order so you can justify him having to do without sometimes.

But generally, just let him have his minion and, provided it's PC level powerful in combat at most, it's unlikely to keep him from being beaten up occasionally or having a gun put to his head while he's told to call the beastie off.

[Ihadris]

Thanks, we were thinking that paying for it as you would an item of power would be a sensible method. What do you think?

Talking with the player he has suggested that the Guardians respond to his emotional state and so if he is riled or feeling threatned that the guardian might attack the focus of those emotions even if it is another ally, rolls to dicipline to perhaps keep it in check or roles to conviction to re-assert control.


My primary concern in this is to accomodate the player in question and keep things fair for the others. He hasnt read the books as the others have so when he comes up with these awesome ideas I want him to be able to play them if possible without unbalancing things.

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmm. It should really only be an Item of Power if it provides HIM with powers, as opposed to merely having them itself. Making him roll Conviction to maintain Control or Discipline to avoid it attacking those who anger him seems appropriate enough if it's short on brains and free will.

[Ihadris]

It should really only be an Item of Power if it provides HIM with powers, as opposed to merely having them itself.

Yeah that was something I had thought about but Im not quite sure how else to go about simulating an appropriate refresh cost for it as this is pretty much going to be this characters focus and "power."

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmmm. This as a primary schtick is actually hard. Okay, what kind of guardian are we talking about? Because if it's not physical, I have an idea.

A spiritual guardian could inhabit the body of the individual it's intended to defend, granting them inhuman physical abilities and combat skills at need, so as to protect them better. If you went that route, you could basically build the character as a were-creature (though without Echoes of the Beast), and avoid alot of the problems with this idea. It's even fairly cool and thematic. 

A physical guardian is harder...I'll need to think on it.

[Ihadris]

Whilst very cool and thematic (and an idea for a character I may well pillage for myself for when I get to play.) we are talking about a physical guardian. Its the reason I had linked it into bound demons in the topic title because I felt that they were mechanically a similar idea.

Also the reason why I had thought about it in terms of an item of power. Even if the powers are not being granted to him he is getting a sort of control over them as he can direct the guardian. That indirectness may even go some way to making up for the guardian having its own stress track..

[Deadmanwalking]

Okay, you're just going to have to make something up for this. No, really. Summoned creatures aren't...well, they aren't a primary character schtick in this manner.


I'm a bit at a loss, actually. This system is not designed to reflect this kind of thing well...

Okay, I've got a really bizarre idea here: Get him Channeling (Spirit), a Good Conviction, and a few of Refinement (for extra item slots), as well as a Stunt for an extra Mild Mental Consequence. Put it all (including all the Item Slots) into an Item of Power [+2, it's the critter and very obvious]. Maybe toss on Ritual with a Thematic focus on "Things My Guardian Can Do"...that's narrow enough.

The creature's now invulnerable, but without his will to guide it, it won't do anything but walk around following him (and will go inert if it's out of his line of sight). Anything else it does is a Spell effect, either Evocation or Thaumaturgy. Attacks against the creature are useless, but anyone magical can make a fairly easy Lore roll to figure out to attack him instead.


It'd look like this mechanically:

Powers:

Item of Power-Creature [+2]
Channeling (Spirit) [-2]
Ritual (Guardian's Actions) [-2]
Refinement [-4]
Resilient Mind (+1 Mild Mental Consequence) [-1]

Focus Items: +2 Offensive and Defensive Power and Control of Spirit. +2 Complexity for Guardian's Actions. 4 Enchanted Item Slots (likely a basic Atack and Block effect).

Total of -7 Refresh, though that's pretty easy to adjust up or down.


How does that look?

[JustinS]

I'd check out the FATE/Spirit of the century SRD. They have some more exotic stunts.

http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html#id19
Is having 'companions'.
I'd use that, make the player take an aspect, and have him run the guardian, and reserve the right to take it over whenever...
Call having a butler a mortal stunt. Call having a supernatural whatnot a supernatural stunt (and likely need several slots to build up the ability).

[jb.teller4]

I don't know if this would work well for your player, since it kind of assumes that the construct fights instead of the main character, but you could handle the construct like shape shifting and create the construct with the same number of skill points and the same skill cap as the character.  So outside of combat, the player uses his main character's character sheet.  Then in combat, he switches over and uses the constructs skills.

In most ways, it would be treated as as single character except for having two different skill builds.  The aspects and fate points would be shared (after all, it's the main character who's the star and has free will, while the construct is, well, a construct). 

If the character wanted the construct to have Powers, like strength, toughness, etc. (which seems likely), they'd have to be purchased by the character, so it would probably work best if the construct was his main schtick and he wasn't also, say, a wizard.  (Though I suppose something like modular powers might work, with the main characte and the construct having the same number of refresh spent on Powers, thought the Powers are different between the two forms.)

Aspects would be tied to the main character.  The character could and should take at least one aspect tied to the construct.  This would help keep both characters narratively in the scene, even if only one is being played as a full character at a time.  Aspects about being protected by the construct could be compelled to have the currently background character (whether the main character or the construct at that time) cause problems, be missing, be threatened, etc.  And they could be invoked to have the supporting character help out.


Like I said, not sure if it would do what the player wants, but it seems like it would be easy to do mechanically and it could be fun to play.  But it does sort of require that the construct guardian be the character's main schtick.

-John B.

[Saedar]

I choose you Golem-chu?

[Ihadris]

Thanks guys, thats three awesome and three very different ways to handle it! Ive got a copy of SotC hanging around somewhere that I just never got around to running a game for.

I choose you Golem-chu?

You are right that it's from a game; just not that one apparently. 'Guardian Heroes' or some such for the sega saturn. Never had the pleasure myself so I can't provide much more info then that.

He has another character idea that he was also keen on that was easier to implement and that I felt more comfortable GMing over, so we are saving that gem until I'm back in the same country as them in a few months time.

But again thank you for all your help, definatly couldn't have come up with those on my own.
Ihadris