What's the most munchkin character you can build?

[Moriden]

Also, even going by needing an 'item', you could get some tattoos.

Yeahp and i personally count that as a trans-formative ritual  taking the affect of tattoos, it cant be an item of power in that case because its not separate from you, And there's no real way to represent it as an enchanted item, so you'd need to deal with all of the trans formative problems. unless your saying that you'd enchant the ink itself and that the "enchanted tattoo ink" would give you the immunity. Personally id veto that as just not being possible in the setting but i guess it might work.

Now if we can only get a clarification on "package" toughness powers and weather each of them individually has to always be worth -1 or if that's just for the "package"

[drnuncheon]

Now if we can only get a clarification on "package" toughness powers and weather each of them individually has to always be worth -1 or if that's just for the "package"

IIRC, Fred has clarified this multiple times, and its the way that all the examples work in the book:

1. Add up total cost of Toughness powers.
2. Subtract cost of Catch (or Catches, in the case of Physical Immunity + Stacked Catch).
3. Minimum total refresh cost is -1.

J
(So what happens when Harry broadcasts Nicodemus' weakness to everyone on the Paranet?  Does the guy get a couple of Refresh back?)

[Deadmanwalking]

Now if we can only get a clarification on "package" toughness powers and weather each of them individually has to always be worth -1 or if that's just for the "package"

It's been clarified, in precisely the way drnuncheon mentions. He's also fixed the problem:

Stacked Catch now reads:

Stacked Catch [+varies]. Normally, all your Toughness powers can only receive the refresh rebate effect of one Catch, so you line them all up and choose the best one. If you take Physical Immunity, and have other Toughness abilities already covered by a Catch, you may also receive the refresh rebate of a second Catch. This second Catch may only affect how the Physical Immunity works, and it’s called a Stacked Catch. If you take a Stacked Catch, the first Catch covering the other Toughness powers does not include the Physical Immunity as one of the abilities covered.

For example, let’s say a fire demon has Supernatural Toughness with the Catch that he’s vulnerable to cold. Normally, this would give him a refresh rebate of +3: +2 because cold is easy to come by, and +1 because research would normally uncover it.

In addition, he has physical immunity to damage from any kind of fire. The Catch is that it only applies to attacks with fire. Normally, this would give a rebate of +5: +2 for protecting against only one specific thing, +2 because “not fire” is easy to come by, and +1 because research would normally uncover it.

Because you can stack these two refresh benefits, the demon gets a total of +8 toward his Toughness powers, so his total refresh cost is only –4 (–4 for Supernatural Toughness, –8 for Physical Immunity, +8 for the stacked benefit).

A character with a Stacked Catch that that inverts the conditions of the first Catch is strongly discouraged. A Physical Immunity to Fire layered on top of Supernatural Toughness that can only be pierced by Fire just never happens in reality, and if it did, one or both Catches would be rightly valued as worth zero.

[arentol]

Yup, the new change makes it clear you can only take a single Catch if you only have PI, and that if you have PI + Toughness a/o Recovery the regular catch can only apply to T+R, not PI.

[drnuncheon]

It's been clarified, in precisely the way drnuncheon mentions.

Technically (based on the new rule) it might be better phrased like this:

1. Add up total cost of Toughness powers (except Physical Immunity)
2. Subtract cost of Catch - minimum total refresh cost is -1.
3. Add cost of Physical Immunity (minus the Catch that applies to it).

Since the most you can get back from the Catch is +6, Physical Immunity will always cost at least -2 Refresh. 

[Moriden]

Okay so using my original example wed have.

Physical immunity Always active, immunity to "Weapons" Adjusted cost -3 total cost -8
Stacked catch:  Not a Weapon +2, Easy to come by +2, Can be researched +1                           [+5]
 Because only the PI catch can now reduce the cost of this power pi will never be less then -3?
 

I believe this works though

Immunity -8      catch +5                  -8 +3 =       -3
Inhuman toughness -2                                       -2
Inhuman recovery  -2                                        -2
                                                                    -7 total

Catch +3    Goes to pool                                   +3
Human Form +2  affects all of them                     +2
Feeding dependency +1  affects all of them          +1
                                                                    +6 total

If my understanding of Iagos most recent post is correct. the way we do the math here is that we add up the total "toughness powers" in this case that is -7 with the note that the +3 from the primary catch cant apply to invulnerability. we have a total available points of +6 we use the +2 from human form to apply to invulnerability and the others on the rest reducing the "package "to a -1
 
meaning when in your "combat form" you get your immunity, toughness, and recovery all for the low low cost of -1 refresh.

[Falar]

That works. The way you phrase it is kinda whack, but it works now. And I'd personally go for the Toughness/Recovery being always active, have the Immunity in special form because you'll get the same reduction, but sweet, sweet Toughness/Recovery all the time.

[Deadmanwalking]

Technically it should be like this:

Inhuman toughness -2                                       -2
Inhuman recovery  -2                                        -2
Catch +3                                                         +3
                                                                      -1 total

Immunity -8                                                     -8
catch +5                                                         +5
                                                                      -3 total

Applied to both:
Human Form +2  affects all of them                     +2
Feeding dependency +1  affects all of them          +1
                                                                    +3 total

But yeah, that'd work. Though the normal Catch would have to be a non-weapon (to avoid the Immunity Fire and Fire catch situation mentioned).

Using this power set would also provoke up to a +12 Discipline attack (depending on which flaws the GM said counted towards it) resulting in power loss, and would make the staff unusable as is since you can't have multiple Feeding Dependencies.

[Moriden]

 

and would make the staff unusable as is since you can't have multiple Feeding Dependencies.

two different examples, just wanted the second one to be as clear as possible so tried not to get to specific about its details.

[Deadmanwalking]

two different examples, just wanted the second one to be as clear as possible so tried not to get to specific about its details.

That's cool, just making the point that the first character mentioned wouldn't work with this setup.

[Moriden]

if there's any interest ill redo the original munchkin character in the morning. with these new clarifications.

[Korwin]

Here is my try, of an unbalanced Char (for Submerged):


-3 Item of Power
+2 Item Bonus, a Cloak
-2 Glamours
-1 Beast Change*
-----
-1

* The Char turns into an D&D Succubus (with non-functional Wings).


-2 Ritual: Item Creation    


-4 Supernatural Recovery
+3 Catch: Salt   
-----
-1


+1 Human Form
-1 - Emotional Vampire**
-1 - Incite Emotion**
-----
-1

** When using this Powers, the Char. gains black Eyes and and the room temperature gets higher (think Withe Court, only warmer instead of colder), small Horns sprout…


-1 Refinement x 4   -4
-----
-4
(10 Focus Item Slots) +5 Item Crafting Power Focus, 10 Enchanted Item Slots.


Skills:
Superb 2: Lore, Resources
Great 2: Athletics, Deceit
Good 2: Presence, Guns
Fair 3: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance
Average 5: Conviction, Driving, Contacts, Fists, Discipline

After Beast Change:
Superb 2: Deceit, Guns
Great 2: Alertness, Athletics
Good 2: Endurance, Discipline
Fair 3: Conviction, Fists, Weapons
Average 5: Driving, Contacts, Investigation, Lore, Presence

Enchanted Items:
Knife: Opens a Door into the NeverNever.
(Strength 6, 5 uses per Session) --> 1 Enchanted Slot.
Shield Bracelet: +8 Block or +4 Armor (Duration 3 exchanges), 7 Uses per Session --> 4 Enchanted Item Slots.
An enchanted Chain: +10 Weapons attack (to Hit is with Guns), 9 Uses per Session --> 5 Enchanted Item Slots.

[crusher_bob]

The spec bonuses for refinement must also follow the skill pyramid, so you can't have a +5 to crafting power spec without at a +4, +3, +2, and +1 also dedicated to thaumaturgy. 

[Korwin]

Nope, there you are wrong 

[Moriden]

Or, gain two additional specialization
bonuses for Evocation and/or Thaumaturgy.
You have to structure your specialization
bonuses for each ability according to the same
“column” limits for skills (see page 65).

pg 182 your story.

Emphasis mine.

The only bonuses that ignore this rule are focus items.