Author Topic: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting  (Read 2698 times)

Offline iago

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Judgment calls for spellcasting that we would make at our table (and will try to squeeze into the text if we can find room):

Armor and protective blocks can be mobile if cast by evocation. Generally speaking -- though there are exceptions for specific protections against specific things -- armor and protective blocks established by thaumaturgy are rooted to a specific place, being immobile.  Therefore, armor and protective blocks when put into an enchanted item should be regarded as working under an evocation model in terms of what that implies for things like duration.

Spells which have a maneuver-like effect (placing a temporary aspect on a target) are governed by the ways maneuvers typically work. Extra shifts can be invested beyond the core effect to build a case that the temporary aspect is "sticky", but if you want to simply allow spell-maneuvers to produce sticky effects, we will not tell you that's wrong.

Holding someone in place can be done several ways. You should figure out if you want it to simply slow them down (a maneuver might do the trick then) or if you want to hold them in place (a block against movement is appropriate). If you're going the block direction, consider an examination of the grapple rules. If you're achieving this effect via an evocation, you'll need to think about adding shifts for duration at some point.

Veils produced by Evocation are an edge-case when it comes to the duration rules.  Since they aren't, strictly speaking, protection, it may be appropriate to allow them to run for longer than a single exchange without investing shifts in duration.  While you could concept them as a block, really, they're just a simulation of a REALLY GOOD Stealth roll, and each "exchange" of a veil's effect should last about as long as the GM would normally allow the results of a really good Stealth roll to stand before calling for another one.

No effect produced by evocation should last beyond a single scene unless there is a very very good reason to do so. (Your GM/table is the arbiter of what constitutes a good reason.)

Now, like I said up top, I'll try to get this into the text if I can, but space is at a premium right now and we can't afford to trigger a massive reflow of the chapter, so what gets squeezed in will be a few words here & there, maybe in the margins, if we can get it there at all. And since these are "judgment calls" that doesn't mean they have to be right for your game and how you run it.
Fred Hicks
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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 02:22:22 AM »
Cool. Good solid info on what you'd do. If it's not gonna get into the book, I'd advise making this sticky or something, so we don't lose track of it. Though admittedly maybe after the errata's go away, since there are sn awful lot of sticky threads and messages right now.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 02:24:56 AM by Deadmanwalking »

Offline iago

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 02:31:14 AM »
Cool. Good solid info on what you'd do. If it's not gonna get into the book, I'd advise making this sticky or something, so we don't lose track of it. Though admittedly maybe after the errata's go away, since there are sn awful lot of sticky threads and messages right now.

Yeah. I think I'll definitely be putting in something about the mobility/immobility thing as far as wards go (though I may have to leave it implicit rather than explicit as to what that means for enchanted items due to space), and the Veils duration stuff seems particularly worth getting into. Grappling, hm, I'll have to see if I can find a space for it.  The bit about maneuvers I consider to be covered implicitly already, so if anything's going to fail to make it in in any form I'd bet it's that.
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Offline iago

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 02:51:28 AM »
YS252:

HARRY: Hey Billy, would you use a “block” effect to hold a target in place, sorta like
(click to show/hide)
did to me in the SUMMER KNIGHT case?

BILLY: Probably, yeah. The thing to remember with any “how would I” question is that there are probably multiple answers.  You could model an entangle spell as a maneuver (the aspect used to slow you down), a block (against movement), or that special sub-type of a block, the grapple (page 211). Intent precedes mechanics; figure out what you want to do first, then find a system concept that matches it.

YS255:

BILLY: Duration with Evocation veils is largely a matter of GM judgment call. Personally I wouldn’t go for “1 shift gets you one extra exchange” with a veil; I’d just let it hang around until something pierces it, or until the end of the scene. I see them simply as REALLY GOOD magical Stealth rolls.

YS277:

BILLY: Bob, do I have it right that wards are usually immobile, so if you want a big, long-lasting spell of protection it has to be rooted to one location? So if someone wants mobile protection, it’s all short term evocation and things like enchanted items?

BOB: Very good, William! Your conclusions are generally correct. With magic, there are always exceptions—but they’re rare and tied to specific circumstances.
Fred Hicks
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Offline Archmage_Cowl

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 02:58:09 AM »
Clears up the confusion and gives nice character flavor. I love the way you guys fix problems ;D
"I who stand in the full light of the heavens, command thee, who opens the gates to hell. Come forth Divine Lightning! This ends now! Indignation!" Jade Curtis Tales of the abyss

Offline iago

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 03:12:09 AM »
Oh! This reminds me. Someone on RPG.net asked about summoning guidelines. Here's the response I wrote. Thoughts on how much of it, and what, needs to go into the book?

At the moment [what you can summon is] purposefully open. Because Summoning is really about getting the attention of something that could eat your face for breakfast (and often wants to) and then trying to have a pleasant conversation with it.

In a lighter weight case -- like when Harry summons a loa to have a chat about some areas of research that Bob can't cover -- it's really just about going through the steps of ritual to gain access to information that isn't otherwise accessible. (Sort of like the outcome of a Contacts roll but with a contact that'd be impossible to reach normally.)

In a heavier case, it's about taming a whirlwind. The GM is going to be sketching something up quick to satisfy the particulars of your request, so she'll be the one tweaking the dials, working out how what you summoned fits into the categories of threats you could be facing (or if it's really just intended to turn out to be one of those lighter weight cases, info access).

The middle case is something like Chauncy, a research activity that COULD turn into a face-eating threat if you're not careful.

As we contemplated this we realized we'd be doing the source material a disservice to come up with strict, "for X power, you can construct demon Y". Because summoning is just about extending an invitation and seeing what shows up. Binding and all that is about dealing with whoever/whatever came knocking when you did.
Fred Hicks
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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 03:23:18 AM »
I actually more or less got that impression from the book, actually. But a brief sidebar on there not being any hard rules because Summoning is an invitation, not a demon-making spell, might be worth including

Offline iago

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 03:26:20 AM »
I actually more or less got that impression from the book, actually. But a brief sidebar on there not being any hard rules because Summoning is an invitation, not a demon-making spell, might be worth including

Billy,on YS273 now:

Harry, I didn’t put guidelines here for stats of summoned creatures. It seems to me that on the low end, summoning is just about using your spellcraft to make a really good Contacts roll.  Up from that, it’s about extending an invitation and seeing what comes knocking. And the thing that knocks could be all over the map in terms of power level.
Fred Hicks
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Offline vampmike

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 06:45:24 AM »
from what i remember about the books, not having them to hand this sound dead on, apart from names.

it might be an idea to add unless you know its name, and of course how much protection that actually affords. from what i remember even though harry knew Chauncy's real name i got the feeling that this didnt protect him from the demon, it was the circle strength? the name just contacted the being he wanted to talk to.

Offline The Codex

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Re: Developer Perspective: Judgment Calls We'd Make On Spellcasting
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 07:57:00 AM »
Having an Idea for a smaller villian for a campaign, I would like him to be able to summon small swams of creatures, Bats, Rats etc, also to use them for Wards, imagine walking into a protected place breaking the ward and thousands of little bugs swarm the players, or rats, i like rats for villians)

Would you just use the summoning rules and some sort of mind magic to control there interllects? Ward for wards of course, its really if you would use the same summoning rules for creatures and a number of smaller creatures

Cheers