Toughness, Recovery, and The Catch

[cetra02]

If a charterer has both Toughness and Recovery powers, does the Catch discount both powers individually, or only once?

[blackstaff67]

It affects both powers at once. 
Example:  I have Inhuman Toughness and Recovery.  My Catch is Fire.  My stress track looks like this:
Armor:1 plus (00)000 (note the two extra stress boxes from Toughness).

I take seven (7) shifts of physical stress from Fire.  My Catch is satisfied.   Normally my natural Armor would subtract one stress, reducing the attack to six stress.  My track would look like this: 
(00)00X with the fifth box marked off and a Minor consequence that I can shrug off as a supplemental action. But since Fire satisfies my Catch, not only does it bypass my Armor:1, it also ignore all the extra boxes Inhuman Toughness gives me, I look like this instead:(00)00X plus four shifts of consequences I have to soak up.  Not only that, but I cannot apply my Inhuman Recovery to recover from these consequences.  OUCH!

[Taran]

It discounts both together, not each one individually.

So, if you have a +3 discount and you have
-2 inhuman toughness
-4 supernatural recovery

Your total refresh spent is 3

edit:  note that if you have a +2 discount and you only buy (-2) inhuman toughness, you still have to pay at least one refresh.

It affects both powers at once. 
Example:  I have Inhuman Toughness and Recovery.  My Catch is Fire.  My stress track looks like this:
Armor:1 plus (00)000 (note the two extra stress boxes from Toughness).

I take seven (7) shifts of physical stress from Fire.  My Catch is satisfied.   Normally my natural Armor would subtract one stress, reducing the attack to six stress.  My track would look like this: 
(00)00X with the fifth box marked off and a Minor consequence that I can shrug off as a supplemental action. But since Fire satisfies my Catch, not only does it bypass my Armor:1, it also ignore all the extra boxes Inhuman Toughness gives me, I look like this instead:(00)00X plus four shifts of consequences I have to soak up.  Not only that, but I cannot apply my Inhuman Recovery to recover from these consequences.  OUCH!

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I think your extra stress boxes go at the end of your track.  Like this:
0000(00)

Does it make a difference?  The books have the extra stress tracks at the end, I think.  It might just be an ease of bookkeeping issue.

[RonLugge]

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I think your extra stress boxes go at the end of your track.  Like this:
0000(00)

Does it make a difference?  The books have the extra stress tracks at the end, I think.  It might just be an ease of bookkeeping issue.

It makes a HUGE difference.  Don't forget that your first stress box is worth 1 stress, the 2nd worth 2, and so on.  So your biggest stress boxes are all off to the right -- which is where your toughness sits, granting you bigger & better stress boxes.  A seven-stress fire hit, bypassing his catch, would in fact inflict 00X(00) + a moderate consequence.  (He had the consequence right, so I'm wondering if he was just noting things... really weird).

[Taran]

It makes a HUGE difference.  Don't forget that your first stress box is worth 1 stress, the 2nd worth 2, and so on.  So your biggest stress boxes are all off to the right -- which is where your toughness sits, granting you bigger & better stress boxes.  A seven-stress fire hit, bypassing his catch, would in fact inflict 00X(00) + a moderate consequence.  (He had the consequence right, so I'm wondering if he was just noting things... really weird).

It's weird to me because (00)00X   looks like you just got hit for a 5 stress hit.  But, if it bypassed the catch, your stress track starts at the 3rd box....so it's only a 3 stress hit.

In the end, it's whether  you want toughness to soak the small hits and have  your regular health soak the big hits or vice versa.

To me, it's less confusing the other way.  doing it like this: 000 (0000) means your 1-box is a 1-box whether or not you have toughness, whereas like this: (0000) 000, your regular boxes end up changing depending on whether your power is active (like if you have human form) or if your catch is met.  In this scenario, boxes 5,6 and 7 are also 1,2 and 3.

[blackstaff67]

It makes a HUGE difference.  Don't forget that your first stress box is worth 1 stress, the 2nd worth 2, and so on.  So your biggest stress boxes are all off to the right -- which is where your toughness sits, granting you bigger & better stress boxes.  A seven-stress fire hit, bypassing his catch, would in fact inflict 00X(00) + a moderate consequence.  (He had the consequence right, so I'm wondering if he was just noting things... really weird).

No it doesn't.  The catch bypasses your Armor and extra boxes, so you'll either looke like this:
(00)000X plus consequences or this:
000X(00) plus consequences.

[Taran]

No it doesn't.  The catch bypasses your Armor and extra boxes, so you'll either looke like this:
(00)000X plus consequences or this:
000X(00) plus consequences.

thinking about it, this is what I don't like about it:

Let's say you have toughness (0000)0000

and lets say you take a 1shift hit; a 3 shift hit and a 4 shift hit (after armour is applied)
your box looks like this: (X0XX)0000

Now, you get hit by a catch satisfying, 3 shift hit
You get to take that hit with a free box (X0XX)00X0 because the first 4 boxes no longer count.

Doing it this way gives you extra 1-4 shift hits.

If you did it the other way
0000(0000)

your 3 hits would look like this:
X0XX(0000)
the catch satisfying 3-shift hit would have to roll over to a consequence (since it can't roll over to your toughness boxes), whereas with your method, you'd still get to soak it.  Technically, you can only soak each box once - not twice.

[dragoonbuster]

Yeah, blackstaff, this isn't really a question to debate. The extra boxes go after the others, period. It's additional toughness over what you'd have if you were purely human. Even from a purely narrative standpoint it makes no sense to put the extra boxes first.

[blackstaff67]

I thought htis had come up earlier in other threads and was settled.  I will nevertheless concede.