How long can Butcher maintain WC suspicion of Harry?

[BrainFireBob]

Butcher's done an outstanding job of keeping the literal angels that will vouchsafe Harry's character from the Council.

Have we seen Ancient Mai since Mouse testified on Harry's behalf, revealing that he's chosen to accept being Harry's pet? She might have converted on the spot politically- explains the Merlin's desperation.

From the Council's perspective, Harry is a loose cannon who deals freely with vampires, the nastier fae, and other monsters. He's worked with Nicodemus, the White Court, the Black Court; he has an unexplained knowledge of necromancy, Etruscan, and Sumerian yet struggles in Latin (this implies he practices the other two frequently, so dealings with White Court and ghouls); he starts the war with the Red Court, largely stays out of it (aside from eliminating the Tigress) until drafted, but then when they strike at his child he up and eliminates them all like they are nothing.

He's been known to throw Hellfire.

Yet he also has Soulfire and is close to the KotC. This should create cognitive distortion or cause the Senior Council to reconsider.

Has anyone seen him use Soulfire on the Council?
Have we seen Mai since Mouse testified on Harry's behalf?
Does anyone on the Council know that Harry is a frequent collaborator of the KotC- recall, they're not members of the Accords?

Do you think Battle Grounds will touch on this point, given the weapons Harry is wielding, and the implied revelation of his role as Warden?

EDIT: Going to add that from a Doylist POV, the point of Kemmler is throw suspicion on Harry, who appears to tick nearly all the same boxes. Which is part of why I am so confident that he was the last Starborn, and he used that ability specifically to seek knowledge beyond the Outer Gates.

[Bad Alias]

You've also got to list all the "bad" things Harry has done. I doubt the Council knows too much about the things that would help Harry the most, like Uriel, Odin, and Hades all taking a favorable interest in him.

We do know that Foo Dogs can be evil. I don't think Ancient Mai knows that though. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a large contingent of eastern wizards who think very differently about Harry than the did before TC.

No, we haven't seen Ancient Mai since TC.

[Grifter]

I mean, as long as he's a member of the evil Sidhe court, regularly allies himself with the defacto leader of the most powerful vampire court, performs necromancy when convenient, starts wars with supernatural nations for personal reasons, shacks up with Dark Elves, commits war crimes against ghouls, makes bargains with devils, works with Denarians, rides with the Wild Hunt, and strolls into Edinburgh once every few decades to defy the Senior Council to their faces, then I'm sure he'll be on a short list.

But it wouldn't surprise me if there's an overwhelming vote by the Council at large to keep him.  He's probably got a bad reputation with the older generation, but a lot of word of mouth will be that he Does the Right Thing, and people will like him for that.

[Bad Alias]

Wouldn't that be a twist? Harry doesn't get the chance to put on much of a defense at the Council meeting for ... reasons. The Merlin lays out all these reasons to kick him to the curb. Harry's sure he's out. Then either other members get a chance to speak and a bunch of randos list all the reasons to keep him, or there's a vote and he wins the vote in a landslide an it's explained after the fact by said bunch of randos or Luccio or something.

[Grifter]

Wouldn't that be a twist? Harry doesn't get the chance to put on much of a defense at the Council meeting for ... reasons. The Merlin lays out all these reasons to kick him to the curb. Harry's sure he's out. Then either other members get a chance to speak and a bunch of randos list all the reasons to keep him, or there's a vote and he wins the vote in a landslide an it's explained after the fact by said bunch of randos or Luccio or something.

I'd love to see that.  I think the end of BG is going to be tragic for Harry, but a little silver lining might be that someone walks up and says the Council voted even before the battle, and Harry's expecting the worst, and it's the opposite. 

But knowing Butcher, Harry will have lost several loved ones, will have faced tragic consequences in the battle, and will then be told that the Council overwhelmingly voted him out, and he's only got the monsters left.

[vultur]

As long as he remains Winter Knight, there will inherently be some degree of suspicion due to divided loyalties.

But in itself, that would maintain *suspicion* but wouldn't lead to ostracism or being kicked off the Council. Mab is respected though not liked, and divided loyalties are much more "normal" in a feudal/medieval model of government than a modern nation-state one.

Harry's big problems are the White Court association (due to their aptitude for mind control) and his general "loose cannon" nature, e.g. starting the Vampire War.

I mean, as long as he's a member of the evil Sidhe court, regularly allies himself with the defacto leader of the most powerful vampire court, performs necromancy when convenient, starts wars with supernatural nations for personal reasons, shacks up with Dark Elves, commits war crimes against ghouls, makes bargains with devils, works with Denarians, rides with the Wild Hunt, and strolls into Edinburgh once every few decades to defy the Senior Council to their faces, then I'm sure he'll be on a short list.

The necromancy bit is suspicious but I think largely covered by the fact that he won + Luccio backed him up.

The Svartalfar aren't enemies of the White Council and aren't evil/are less predatory upon humans than many other Fae, not sure why association with them is a problem.

Not sure what you're referring to with "bargains with devils". If it's Chauncy in FM, I think that is considered acceptable-but-dangerous in the White Council. (Assuming they even know about it). I don't think the White Council knows about Lash's shadow/Lasciel's coin, and if they did, its being gone would be in his favor.

The only time he's worked on the same side as the Denarians was SG, and that wouldn't "count" in supernatural-politics terms as he was acting under Mab's orders as the Winter Knight (and ended up damaging Nic anyway). So that's neutral to possibly slightly positive given the outcome, depending on what exactly the WC knows about the situation.

The ghouls are not going to be a problem. No concept of war crimes applies here; his action wasn't against the Accords, and the White Council doesn't consider ghouls to be people.

[Bad Alias]

Small animals aren't considered people, but if your buddy starts cutting up puppies and kittens, I suggest distancing yourself from him.

[Arjan]

Small animals aren't considered people, but if your buddy starts cutting up puppies and kittens, I suggest distancing yourself from him.

Ghouls are not cute kittens. They have a low level of cuddliness. The council does not see them as animals but as monsters. They get less sympathy than small animals.

Besides they were trying to kill baby wardens.

[Mira]

   Maybe that is why Jim is most likely going to kill off most of the old guard on the Senior Council in the next book?  Because some members set in their ways after many centuries have become very narrow minded.   In short, they are never going to get over it.  They will always be suspicious of Harry for a number of reasons, many of which are no fault of Harry's.  Namely who his mother was and what he was born to be.  So some of them have to go, I don't think it can be credibly maintained for too much longer that is why suddenly in Peace Talks members of the the Senior Council are described as old, as in elderly, fragile even.  They will die in the next book, blaze of glory maybe
but they are going.. To be replaced with the likes of Luccio and others who may not fully trust Harry, but can work with him.