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Messages - Wicked Woodpecker of West

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31
DF Spoilers / Re: Walkers and Swords and Houses [BG Spoilers]
« on: November 24, 2020, 02:53:18 PM »
TBH Stars and Stones for me points to something a'la Stonehenge.

Astrology, druidism, human sacrifice.

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It could be as simple as them being missing aspects of them. If love and hatred are the same force then the sword of love is missing part of what it should be.

It's not really. Love as a Virtue is different force than love as part of emotional spectrum - that can be used by titans, wizards, fae to empower their spells. They coincide - but ultimately are not the same.

32
DF Spoilers / Re: The Accords, the Council, and Harry
« on: November 24, 2020, 02:52:35 PM »
Wait, wait, what? What break in? What pet God? WTF?

33
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: November 24, 2020, 08:59:06 AM »
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Because if there was, then free will is greatly cheapened, and the whole point of my theory/head canon is to avoid that.

Is it? I mean if any time free will can be used - all possible itterations creates new universe then it seems logical one of those itterations is - ABSTAIN from using it - and going with the flow. Not doing something when you can is ALSO a choice in itself.

You can choice to swim against the flow... or with it.
TBH very well choice Dresden did in Grave Peril was exactly NATURAL choice - in accord of what we know of his inner mechanisms, but he could... well betray himself.

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The ability to exercise free will is what defines mortals in the Dresdenverse. The use of that ability is different than possession of that ability. Uriel says the use is rare.

Indeed, but he also point to several uses of it by Dresden alone in "Warrior".
So "seldom" used by him does not seems to be "rare" - just well - way less often that people thinks.

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Not against yourself, but against your nature. Acting against your nature isn't the same thing as acting against yourself. Acting in accordance with your nature is often detrimental. An addict acting against his nature is a very good thing.

That's quite odd definition of nature, I have to say.

34
DF Spoilers / Re: Walkers and Swords and Houses [BG Spoilers]
« on: November 24, 2020, 03:05:41 AM »
Well I'm kinda all for White Court being agenda of Outsiders, so count me in.

35
DF Spoilers / Re: The Accords, the Council, and Harry
« on: November 24, 2020, 03:04:49 AM »
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And basically has a pet God with which to rampage through the White Councils underwear drawers.

Wait what?

36
DF Spoilers / Re: "Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
« on: November 24, 2020, 03:03:32 AM »
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That isn't so crazy, you know.  Somehow Odin managed to pick up the soul of a devout Catholic.  There might be more cross over between Odin and Jesus in the Dresdenverse than you think.

Look I'm not really judging but considering overall Murphy's life, especially her years long romance with Hellspawn and breaking Sword of Faith I think we can safely assure her Catholicism is more like Irish thing and convinient excuse to avoid threesome propositions from Valkyries, nothing more :P

Now srsly - if Odin stole anything from Jesus he should be radically empowered not diminished, it would seem.

37
DF Spoilers / Re: Drakul's game
« on: November 24, 2020, 02:59:23 AM »
We know dead Wardens shall serve as new recrutis FOR STARS AND STONES.

Which implies either event for which Black Court is renewing his armies or organisation or cult to which Black Court belongs.

38
DF Spoilers / Re: "Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
« on: November 22, 2020, 02:51:13 AM »
I mean it is urban fantasy (Dune is more epic space opera) but with unusual vibe of epic unknown for most of this genre.
Maybe not epic fantasy per se, but sort of ... dunno superhero urban fantasy?

39
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: November 22, 2020, 02:14:47 AM »
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Any decision that isn't against one's nature doesn't create an alternate reality according to Jim. So the "natural" decision would be a decision that isn't against one's nature and wouldn't be an exercise of free will.

Is there a WOJ to that? That would be weird to me, considering free will sort of is part of our nature, it's what defines mortals in Dresdenverse.
Using free will as against of own nature in this regard is weird.

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Without exercising choice Harry would have done X in GP.  But he exercised free will in that book and did Y. In MM, Harry exercised free will and did Z. Y was a good path. Z was a good path. There is no universe in which Harry did X. There may be universes in which Harry did something other than X, Y, and Z, but we don't know because we don't have any indication of a third universe.

But why do we assume there is not like basic universe where Harry did X?
Also - overall it seems to me Dresden had not done anything against his very character in GP. He was faithful to it - till end. Burn the world to save one soul - that's very much natural Dresden as we know him. I mean if option of acting against oneself has power to split the universes - that still should include - option 0 being preserved.

But then you seems to consider that you "exercise" free will only when you act against yourself - not every time you stand against real choice, which is quite weird definition of "exercise" for me. It's like you using exercise like physical exercise, when one has to struggle to get gains.
I see it more as exercising your power over something - each time you do it, you're using your power even if it's easy for you.

So option that only unnatural Dresden's exist is bit weird to me.
If you have quote I'd like to see it, if not - well I think we should hunt for another AMA or Q&A and ask him long and convoluted questions about nature of free will and multiverse.

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On the male gaze thing, I think that one has to ignore a great many character descriptions to reach a lot of the "male gaze" descriptions of characters that appear in the books. For example, in DB several female characters appear. The only one that gets the male gaze treatment is the one trying to seduce Harry. (And maybe the naked jogger, I don't really remember).

Agree. And it was pointed to me, that many characters get too much descriptions over and over, so maybe sexy babes stood bit more - but it's the same with guys and other beings. Descriptive guy Dresden it.

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In my theory, a limited number of Dresdens exist. As few as two, but maybe a lot. Definitely less than all imaginable Dresdens.

That I agree. Still this will be massive number - because it's not just his descisions spliting reality but all 7 bln mortals around.
Some of those splits can be identical from Dresden Files perspective as butterfly effect shall never caught to him, but there are probably worlds when Dresden is different not because of own choice split - but because someone put him in situation when entirely different set of choices and actions was possible.

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Agreed, but if he had killed him that bell cannot be unrung.. 

Consequences could not. But from perspective of Dresden soul and character however paradoxically it can seem it could be better. It could push him to stronger spiritual jihad for instance, and stronger grasp of control, and overall better morality.

40
DF Spoilers / Re: "Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
« on: November 22, 2020, 01:53:02 AM »
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Could be that they do, and the beliefs in the Norse gods lingered for quite some time.  That might be why Odin still manages to carry a lot of weight..  He might also cheat a bit with the Kris Kringle mask, millions of kids believe in Santa..

According to Odin chose to become mortal but keep privilege to meddle in mortal affairs. Of course as ex-Aesir he was still as mortal powerful wizard, so it's no wonder he restored much of his power by gaining various mantles including mantle of Winter King (which was presumably somehow shaped as memory of him, so it could get easier). Also it's a place where I have to say I really dislike how they use Kris Kringle as almost his proper name considering it's relatively modern concept that arise when German settlers for whome Baby Jesus was giving presents on Christmas - it's result of improper pronounciation of Christkind - (ergo Christ-Child), that was mixed with classic Santa Claus vision.

I doubt it's Jim intention - he probably just choose nickname used most in his region but if I was paranoid I'd make theory how Odin is trying to steal mantles from Jesus himself.

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Kringle's thing is that he's part of Odin being a minmaxing fuck who opts into staying involved with humans and becomes mortal as a result but just happens to have a job that gives him immortality on the side.

But I doubt Odin was always a Winter King. He was still proper Aesir in times when Faerie mantles were forged on Stone Table.

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My point was that the Amoracchius effective on Outsiders, so there is reason to believe that Fideliacchuis is too.

All swords bear Angel inside. Angels which are like one of most fundamental forces of Creation if Uriel and Dresden are too be believed. And I'd not be surprised if most of Uriel energy was spend fighting like Multiverse Range Outisders on fringes of Creation, while Mab's forces are just like immunological system of one small universe.

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Oh I don't know, Kris Kringle is pretty immortal and in the guise of St Nicklaus is worshiped as a Christian saint.  Seems like Odin covers all his bases.

I'm not sure if worshipping Saint Nicholas is much empowering for him, but then Santa Claus exists now pretty much independently from real saint.
Now I'm sure Monoc have it's share of stock of Coca Cola company that's for sure.

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And what would be epic fantasy? Magicians?

Tolkien, Sanderson, Jordan, Erikson and so on.
Urban Fantasy usually have opinion of lighter and less epic, as it's either real world with supernatural living around, or real world with hidden supernatural dimension. Either dark brooding Chandlerian noir - like Dresden tried to be in books 1-3, or paranormal romances.
One way or another - even in books it usually have scope of thriller with faeries, than zombie T-Rex, and Titan War epicness.

41
DF Spoilers / Re: Twelve months (speculation)
« on: November 22, 2020, 01:41:01 AM »
TBH I often have feeling he is WOJ-ing lot of stuff, that really would be better in books as signs Harry is getting better grasp of supernatural world.

42
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Potential Wars (By no means a comprehensive list and I’ve left the Chinese celestial wars off as they happened on Earth and we have archeological proof that they happened. Feel free to tell me I’m wrong)
-   The Ӕsir – Vanir War of Norse Mythology
-   The Titanomachy (Greek Myth)
-   The Gigantomachy (Greek Myth)
-   The War in Heaven (Abrahamic Faiths)
-   The Battle of the Devas and Asuras (Hindu Myth)
-   Cath Maige Tuired (Celtic Mythology)

Neither of those really fits.
Most god-titan wars, or gods-previous war fits replacing of Neolithic Pantheons by Indoeuropean invaders in times of Bronze/Iron Age.
It fits with Ethniu she is last of those primordial Gods that survived this multifaceted war.
We do not know her exact nature and role - but she is elemental force of Creation.

So both Titans, pagan gods and Angels fallen or not - are Creation.
And TBH they are aside of Angels not that much ancient within this creation.
I mean sure Ethniu can have like 7000 years, but compare it to Sue :P

So overall I think Outsiders have no mythological source other than Lovecraftian Mythos.

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My personal pick is that when Lucifer was cast down, he was stripped of his grace and that was what got cast OUT. He was known as the Morning Star, the rebellion happened before the stars were born (to quote Mr. Sunshine: “I was fighting wars when this planet was nothing but a cloud of dust and gas”), and Starborn are born every 666 years. This theory wraps up the mystery of the Starborn, the Outer Gates, and why the fallen may work at cross-purposes to the Outsiders. I’m sure there’s something I’m missing so have at it!

I doubt Lucifer was stripped of grace. Grace is what makes angel angel. When Uriel gave away his grace he was not reduced to Fallen. He was reduced to mortal. His grace was tainted but his nature unchanged - even Fallen he is still Angel by nature.

43
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: November 21, 2020, 02:39:32 PM »
But my overall theory about why MM Harry is evil is TBH necromancy.
It's a long time since we've got proper Necro thread, whole kill your doppelganger is implied to by our world Kemmler way to avoid White Council, Mavra is meant to be Darth Harry ally (or ally of Prime Harry against Darth Dresden - there is grammatical possibility), Dracul was teased as part of Stars and Stones.

So my bet in this regard is - that of three apocalypses - Empty Night being Outsider driven, Hell Bells denarian driven, last one is gonna be necro / dark wizards one. And they are the ones that god least attention hiding well in shadows.

I think Mirror!Dresden is Black Council - and we're gonna get big infodump about them thanks to Mirror Mirror that will help Dresden fighting them in next books


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Here's the dilemma. If you can't read the future, what good is the exercise of free will? At best you're guessing.  What you can do is to be true to yourself. So Harry is the type of man that couldn't walk away. And if he does then he has abandoned what it is to be him.

Becasue free will is not only about foresight of consequences. It's about choosing what's wrong and what's right. Picking one of options.
I believe that any choice is true to yourself - by which I mean human beings are complicated not simple like angels, and they have various drives. So I do not really believe in this true to myself - what myself - my Shia Islam Sufi superego or my id of predator hedonist? Both are part of me like my hands and arms... If something is not from myself - I'd not be able to choose it really. I could not just take a knife and stab someone randomly, as it's just no there. But multiple other goods and evils are.

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That is an assumption, or they might see an avenging angel, which would also make them faint.

but would Bradley then act as he acted?

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But Harry didn't kill Rudolph, in the emotion of the moment, yes, he wanted to and tried.  However the Sword of Faith by giving him a good burn sobered him up from his emotion.  In that moment he then chose not to do it, and felt shame that he had tried to do it.

He would feel such shame after killing Rudolph anyway TBH if there was no Butters to stop him.

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That is my point, MM Harry is just too evil. It is difficult (for me) to imagine that our Harry could end being that unless he has external influences, but of course, we will see what JB has in mind.

Turn every book in another story - another corrupting influence after another. Another justification for greater good after another.
It was 14 years since Grave Peril. Lot of time to go dark.


44
DF Spoilers / Re: "Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
« on: November 21, 2020, 02:30:24 PM »
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I believe that is connected to faith..  If the belief system remains strong, the gods etc remain powerful.
Quite a few people still believe in the Almighty and His archangels.

It helps. But evidently faith was not enough to stop Creator for simply sacking Olympian Gods from their jobs.
And then it does not work really with faerie being most powerful supes around, considering faith in them is very limited.
Sure there are stories, but in this case MCU movies should give powerful powerup to Thor :P

45
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: November 20, 2020, 10:41:12 PM »
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But in that world, not the one you belong in..  Also you are assuming that Harry would make a different choice in the mirror world, Harry remains who he is, in both worlds.  The effects on others might be different, but at the core, Harry is who he is.  In Mirror Mirror, while the Kirk in the other world was evil, Kirk remained who he was in both worlds.

If people are WHO they are in strict sense, there would be no free will whatsoever - just nature playing itself just like Mab or Uriel does.
Free Will, Choice means - the character is able to take both choices, that he has in himself ability to choose.

And Harry definitely have some dark, dark potential - people would not faint at his Soulgaze otherwise.

The point for Butcher is to find possible choice earlier which chosen otherwise would gave us first step for Harry into deeper Dresden. Not a choice to turn him into mustacho twirling villain from the get go.

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If Mirror Harry made a important free willed choice different from our Harry then he will be a different Harry. That kind of choices are the choices that shape your soul. That is why the butters tried to stop Harry when he tried to kill Rudolph, that choice would have resulted in a different Harry.

TBH one could agree Harry already made a choice to kill Rudolph. Butters changed consequences not choice itself.
But also in terms of souls - WOJ says otherwise - choices rarely changes soul - because soul already have potential of multiple choices in it's essence. And if you look into a soul - you see them - not just those active and realised - like with Molly's Soul - multiple fates, multiple possibilities, roads not yet taken, shadows of things...

It would change though - Sight. Sight is more about what's now around person. Soul is about immovable essence.
Or at least that's how I understand soul theory from WOJ.

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So, again I hope it is that his choice did not made him evil but more vulnerable to external corruption and that is what make him evil (probably a Denarian??)

I think Darth Dresden will likely be necromancer.

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Also we have seen Harry's condition after Grave Peril and that was when he saved Susan from an even worse fate, she could escape and handle her condition. If he had made the choice the white council had liked him to make and sacrificed Susan for "Peace" his condition would have been much worse.

And Harry is capable of making very bad decisions in such a condition.

Problem with this for me - is considering Harry state in "Grave Peril" I cannot see him at all submitting to peace offer.
It's... this thought does not even cross his mind really. I'd like to see something more subtle, smaller that leads to some catastrophe - possibly Michael's dead and Amoracchius destroyed or smth. I can more likely see Dresden fucking up more severly while trying to save Susan than leaving her for Reds.


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