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Messages - vincentric

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31
Nemesis has to be limited to a small number of hosts or it would have won already. This is an entity that has been around since the beginning of human history. If it spread like a virus and just doubled every year, it could have infected the entire population of earth by now.

32
DF Spoilers / Re: Uriel's Seven Words, So Who is the Liar?
« on: October 27, 2023, 02:39:51 AM »
I'm not trying to convince anyone that Mab is not deceptive. She is. She's proud of it. Deception is one of the Fae's favorite pastimes and Mab plays better and harder than anyone.

But how can you post the difference between lying and deception and then insist they are identical? The intent and outcomes may be the same, but they are technically two different acts. Therefore, Mab can be deceptive with every word she speaks, but never tell a lie. Since there is a difference between the two, she can be guilty of one and not the other in a purely legalese sense.

And when the text says, "The Fae cannot tell a direct Lie." It is meant in the most technical and literal sense. No one has ever said, " The Fae cannot deceive you."

Dealing with the Fae is meant to be tricky and dangerous. One should examine any deal with elemental magical creatures for hidden clauses or double meanings and always remember that " There is no spirit of the Law involved, only the Letter."

33
DF Spoilers / Re: Uriel's Seven Words, So Who is the Liar?
« on: October 25, 2023, 10:32:52 PM »


If he didn't mean Mab, he wouldn't have said, Mab.

But he didn't mean Mab. Right before Uriel sends Harry back to his body, he shows him a replay of Lasciel's lie and specifically says that he is only allowed to counter it with seven words of his own. Lasciel's lie convinced Harry that his self-deception about Winter would make him eventually fall to evil and caused his suicide. Uriel's words revealed the truth of the situation. That Harry was capable of remaining himself while serving Mab. The lies were Harry's to begin with, created by his own fears and lack of understanding and reinforced by a perfectly timed and worded attack by a Fallen Angel.

Mab as a character has taken the one of the biggest development arcs of the series. But she hasn't really changed. Never once has she asked Harry to perform an act that wasn't beneficial to humanity, and she's never instructed him to do anything particularly cruel or evil. What's changed is Harry's (and thus our) understanding of her. His preconceptions painted her as an evil Fae queen, the personification of malicious random cruelty and she has not said word one to change his mind. But when he's examined her acts and words in retrospect, he's slowly changed his opinion. She became a dangerous force of nature to be avoided, then his second-best option after Uriel then a hard-ass boss and finally a lone warrior fighting the good fight with extreme methods. Harry's knowledge and maturation is what's changed  how we see mab.

34
DF Spoilers / Re: Uriel's Seven Words, So Who is the Liar?
« on: October 25, 2023, 02:31:35 PM »
None of that is the point however, Mab can crush away all she wants, but in the end Harry is still his own man with his own free will..  Her saying different was a lie as Uriel pointed out.

But that's the point you refuse to see. Mab never said that Harry had lost his free will, she said she was free to shape him and Harry, in his despair, had convinced himself he couldn't resist. Uriel's words didn't correct a lie by Mab, but Harry's own self-deception. Yes Mab was being deceptive as hell, but she wasn't technically lying.

The Fae cannot tell a direct lie but have taken deceptive speech to a high artform. It's one of their greatest pleasures and a mark of status among them. And Mab, as their Queen, stands at the pinnacle. That's why Mab was so pleased with Harry's attempted suicide. By outwitting her (because she needed Bonnie and Demonreach's aid to counter him), he raised his status in her eyes. It forced her to up her game and that competitive streak is one of the greatest drives of Winter. She didn't even punish him for it because it was a private interaction.

35
DF Spoilers / Re: Uriel's Seven Words, So Who is the Liar?
« on: October 23, 2023, 10:01:03 PM »
There was no lie told by either party.

Mab is telling Demonreach that she has a valid claim on Harry as her sworn knight. She wants it known that she has the right to make demands and train Harry as she chooses. But Harry is still under the idea that working for Mab will automatically change him into a warped and evil version of himself. That's caused by his ignorance and the despair that Lasciel inflicted upon him at his lowest point in Changes.

Mab is taking advantage of Harry's despair and allows him to believe that he is fated to change. It will make him a more obedient knight. At no time did Mab say that Harry was going to become an evil version of himself, she just let him believe what he would.

Uriel's word's tell Harry that while Mab may indeed give him orders, he can still preserve himself as his own man. They give him hope to cancel the despair that Lasciel inflicted. Uriel's words point out the self-deception Harry was assuming, not an actual lie by Mab. Mab only becomes upset because Harry immediately becomes rebellious and give her conditions.

Since he became Winter Knight, Mab has never tried to influence Harry with mental magic. She's put him in optionless scenarios or given him difficult tasks and he has accomplished them as best he could in his own way. During Battle Ground she finally acknowledges that his independence makes him " a Knight worth the trouble", which is the closest she'll ever come to an apology and an expression of her respect for him. She still wants him to obey more readily but she now gives him a clear idea of what orders he has leeway on and why.

36
DF Spoilers / Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« on: October 21, 2023, 02:55:21 PM »
Go to the man on the spot, Rashiid. If anyone knows Outsiders, it's him.

37
DF Spoilers / Re: Fae Rankings
« on: October 17, 2023, 01:48:02 PM »
If Maeve was that obviously crazy and infected, why would Harry even believe the merest hint that it was Mab who was the crazy one?





Because Harry still didn't think that it was possible for Maeve to tell a direct lie. He only discovered that at the denouement of CD.

38
DF Spoilers / Re: Fae Rankings
« on: October 16, 2023, 06:47:23 PM »
When it comes to Aurora, I think you're slightly off.

I think it's highly likely that both Titania and Mab knew that she was Nemfected by the time of SK but were unable or unwilling to take direct action against her.

If someone as cold and calculating as Mab couldn't bring herself to directly put Maeve down, how much harder would it be for Titania, who is governed by her emotions, to destroy Aurora. I think Titania let things go so far to force Mab to stop Aurora. She couldn't face the pain herself. Mab was willing to do it, hence Harry, but she didn't want to kill her niece and further hurt her sister directly. Any future works they had to cooperate on would be more contentious and therefore risky. Plus, though she only shows it in extreme moments, Mab does care. She just won't let caring get in the way of necessity or expediency.

39
DF Spoilers / Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« on: October 06, 2023, 05:35:26 PM »
Since it is Mab's current purpose in existence to defend against the Outside, I'd think she was completely capable of neutralizing a Nemesis vector once she has it in her control. There's no reason to think that she hasn't destroyed/purified that knife and ended its threat.

40
DF Spoilers / Re: Who called up the Cornerhounds?
« on: October 02, 2023, 10:34:10 PM »
I don't think lack of understanding constitutes a compromising of free will. People do stupid and dangerous things they don't understand all the time without being under malign influence. Bad choices are just bad.

41
DF Spoilers / Re: Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark
« on: October 01, 2023, 06:13:11 AM »
Seeing the recently posted Dragoncon 2019 transcript makes me think that Harry and Lara may actually get very close if Harry can take advantage of this:

"If a White Court vampire wants to get you all they have to do is get you alone for a bit and be able to touch you, that's all it really amounts to. But there's this whole issue with White Court vampires and wizards but we haven't gotten to that. Hahahaha, oh it's like heroin."

That implies that Lara and/or Harry may not be willing to stop seeing the other after the initial hookup. It does explain that spark they felt at the end of BG.

42
DF Spoilers / Re: Ruby Waystone ...
« on: September 30, 2023, 04:29:45 AM »
They didn't use a boat. Harry had his Intellectus up and saw them just appear on Demonreach. They may have brought the spiders with them or summoned them like Binder does with his troops.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark
« on: September 28, 2023, 05:30:10 AM »
Murphy wouldn't be returning the world, Harry and Gard would be seeing her and Hendricks in Valhalla while seeking information.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark
« on: September 27, 2023, 09:06:07 PM »
Thinking about it, the easiest way for Murphy (or Hendricks) to be used again will probably be in the "wrestling" book.

As part of the favor Harry owes Vadderung, he and Gard could be sent to the Norse Valhalla in the Never Never and encounter them there.

45
DF Spoilers / Re: Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark
« on: September 27, 2023, 07:01:15 AM »
Also, Sigrun and Freydis Gard are both pretty cool persons underneath their warrior women role. I don't see how Murphy would not fit right in with them.

And not to say that Vadderung/Odin can't be progressive, but we haven't seen any female Einherjar or any male Valkyries. Perhaps his magic works differently for men and women.

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