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Messages - Mira

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1936
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 05, 2022, 10:21:55 PM »
Maeve didn't want to be cured, Lea did. Lea admits that she wasn't in her right mind in GS and Sarissa makes this point to Maeve in CD. Maeve rejects the overture and Mab's offer to cure her and return her to her duties, thus sealing her fate.

That's my point, though you express it better than me.  Maeve was the real target, Nemesis merely used Lea to get near her.  Nemesis knew that Maeve was vulnerable in the extreme, and was also aware of the dynamics that set up her eventual infection.  They also understood that because she was already unstable her infection would go unnoticed by Mab until it was too late for her to do anything about it except what she did.  I also think the scene with Harry in the chapel in Small Favor is Mab realizing what had happened and being totally pissed with herself over it.

1937
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 05, 2022, 07:43:13 PM »
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Sanya put down his coin, entirely possible.

Not saying that it isn't, but it is also rare enough that it led to Sanya becoming a Holy Knight.  There
is a difference between Sanya and Marcone I think, I don't think Sanya is as power hungry as Marcone is.  As long as Marcone lusts for power, he will keep the coin I think.
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As for the power? There are other options, (as Harry once opined) such as the Kringle Mantle making him a genuine Faerie Godfather. Mab and Vadderung owe him big time after Chicago
I don't see Vadderung giving up one of his personal mantles if it is a mantle.  By that I mean it is part of the personae of Odin, I don't think it is something he can give away.  Also as we've seen with Harry's struggles with the Winter Knight's mantle, trading a mantle for a coin doesn't guarantee that Marcone will be in control of it or as a result, himself.
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Besides you can just imagine Jim has been saving up Harry calling Marcone a Faerie Godfather for years.

Groan, as long as Harry doesn't wake up with Mouse's severed head beside him in bed... ::)

1938
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 05, 2022, 07:33:29 PM »
I think maybe Maeve welcomed the infection, it allowed her to lie despite the Mantle, and act against it.

Nemesis can only be in so many places at once. What if Mab didn’t cure Lea, but Nemesis voluntarily left Lea for a more willing vessel? Maeve. What if Mab knew this? She just tortured Lea until Nemesis moved to the host she wanted it to move to.

I am wondering if Maeve wasn't Nemesis's target all along?  There were hints early on that Lea was a bit discontented thinking perhaps that Mab didn't appreciate her.  So when Harry out of ignorance and fear tried to kill her with the Sword of Love and she gained the Sword it gave her an opening when she is gifted the Knife.  What is odd though is the next time we see the Knife if I remember correctly it is Mab that is wearing it in her belt.  No mention of Maeve being anywhere near it if I remember correctly.  What is also odd, is though Mab is seen wearing the Knife in her belt, she somehow eludes infection.  Or did she?  We think in Proven Guilty that in the ice garden where Lea is undergoing treatment, Mab is just hiding out.  Or is she? Did she by this time realize the source of Lea's infection and is prophetically treating herself as well?  I think so.. Having said all of that when did Maeve come in contact with the Knife? Did Lea let her examine it before Mab got hold of it?  Mab evidently realized pretty quickly that it was infected, but didn't realize that Maeve had had contact? Or more likely I think, the target was Maeve, she got the full blast of the infection, that is really why Mab couldn't cure her.  She and Lea on the other hand had fairly mild infections, so they were able to treat it and were cured. 

1939
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 05, 2022, 05:30:34 PM »
Nicodemus still thinks he is in command.

Yup, and that "partnership" with Andriel is what Lasciel tried to sell Harry on, but he wasn't buying.

1940
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 05, 2022, 03:40:07 PM »
I can only go with the text. I've cited chapter and verse to support my position and as such that is all I can do.

I appreciate that, we are just reading it differently is all. That is what this board is about different opinions about what we are reading. ;)

Mab isn't wrong as far as love killing as many as hate, it has and does.  I need to see the quote in context because I don't think it applies to Maeve and Molly in terms of the "same horse in this case, since Maeve was mentally disturbed, then infected and became more insane, while Molly is not. 

1941
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 05, 2022, 12:01:37 PM »
Marcone would not only lay down the coin but would clearly make Namshiel painfully aware that he had foolproof plans for putting the coin out of the reach of humanity forever no “going to the Vatican”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Marcone has dropped his coin once and shown Namshiel his plans as an inducement for his good behaviour with the stick, as well as the carrot of being able to indulge his magical nerdism away from Nicky.

It doesn't work that way though.

1942
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 05, 2022, 11:59:14 AM »
Maeve didn’t know the difference between love and hate, she was deeply insane only held together at all by her Mantle.

This wasn’t a new development, however the nemfection of Lea distracted Mab from dealing with Maeve and Lloyd Slate and the existing problems in her Court. She had placed the Redcap to watch Maeve because of them.

Lea was a diversion. It delayed Mab taking action against Maeve.

Maeve was intent on taking action against humanity, not in succeeding Mab.

I actually agree with this, she was warped even before she got infected with the Knife.  While Mab didn't realize Maeve was infected until it was too late to cure her, I don't think infected Lea as a distraction is the reason.  Mab, I think loved both her daughters, and in truth willfully blinded herself to the short comings, excesses, and twisted behavior of her daughter, who also was the Winter Lady.  Even with Red Cap keeping an eye on her, it wasn't enough and she still didn't catch the fact that her daughter was infected, the prior behavior was that outrageous. That is the main reason why Molly has been so busy, she has been playing catch up and making up for the hundred fifty years plus of Maeve's misbehavior and neglect of her job.

1943
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 04, 2022, 10:21:08 PM »
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Actually Mab telling Harry to kill Molly is foreshadowed in Cold Days. When Harry is trying to determine if or not to obey Mab. Mother Summer asks Harry how Maeve would treat him. Molly is on the same horse she is just a different rider.  Maeve hated Harry. Molly loves him.  It's two different faces of the same coin. And Mab tells Harry as much in Battle Ground.

I don't think Maeve hated Harry, I don't think she was capable of love or hate, not where Harry comes in.  I think she loved her mother and it turned into hate or more like the quote you sight.   I also don't think it is the same horse exactly either.  Even if it is the same horse, it is all about how it is ridden that counts in the end, that is why jockeys are so important.

1944
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 04, 2022, 10:14:37 PM »
But Marcone would lay down the coin if he thought he was being controlled, even if it mean’t his death.

Could he? He likes the power, but the cross he may have to carry as a result is not being in control of it.

1945
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 04, 2022, 06:59:12 PM »
Mother Summer tells you the possible outcomes. With Mab dead and Maeve in charge the brakes would be off.  Harry would eventually end up like Slate and without Mab to enforce the accords Summer would go to war to protect humanity, which is Titania's purpose, again per Mother Summer. Cold Days was the end of an arc and it ties up most of the mysteries  of the first half.

Yes, but we also have the conversation between Harry and Mab after Maeve's death, and Mab admits to being human once.  Kringle warns Harry to not have this kind of conversation in front of others because of her pride and perhaps fear of appearing vulnerable.  In my opinion this hints of possible future problems with Mab aside from the obvious ones.  It may have even been a factor in Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly if something happens to her.  I know we've come up with a lot of explanation, like she wants Lara to be her successor or that Molly isn't ready so kill her off.  However this order came before she proposed the marriage between Harry and Lara, so if Mab died, and the mantle automatically passed to Molly, Mab is asking Harry to kill his Queen.  It is just very odd is all I am saying.

1946
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 04, 2022, 04:45:40 PM »
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Nemesis role is as saboteur to sow discord and dissent behind the “enemy” lines and weaken the current defenders of the Gates. Killing the Queen is no good because of the Succession of Mantles. Winter’s role is actually the protector of humanity. Destroy humanity then Winter loses its purpose and the Gates fail. That is why all the apocalypses, or attempts at the same. Damage humanity enough through an ice age, or a plague or a massive super explosion by blowing up Demonreach’s failsafe, or setting a Titan on humanity then it weakens the Defenders enough for the Gates to be breached.

Yes, that is why Nemesis tried to infiltrate the Winter Court with the Knife, and with the infection of Maeve nearly succeeded.  I think we have yet to see the full repercussions from that.  Yes, seemingly it all turned out but because she internalizes so much we don't know what having to order the death of her daughter and death of her daughter did to Mab. 

1947
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 03, 2022, 08:44:18 PM »
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I think that the Lady and the Knight were creations different then the Queens, that is that the Queen's become part of Hecate but the Lady and the Knight don't.  This is weakly supported in the text. One of the purposes of the Ladies Mantle may to be to remove the humanity from the person who assumes it to prepare them to be the Queen. And this would be why Molly and the Ladies cannot have sex.

I don't think so,  Skin Game page336

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"Is that Hecate?" Ascher murmured, staring up at the statues in awe. "The triple goddess of the crossroads, right?"
I swallowed.  "Uh. It. . .Yes, it might be."
And it might also be Grannies Summer and Winter, Mab, Titania, Sarissa, and Molly Carpenter. But I didn't say anything about that.

1948
DF Spoilers / Re: Prequels
« on: February 03, 2022, 03:42:54 PM »


 Yeah, but I really want to know what was the dynamic between Eb and his daughter which led to her rebelling, which led ultimately to the birth of both Thomas and Harry. Which is also at the root of the problems Harry has had with the Council over the years.  I also want to know more about Margaret's mother, we know nothing about her, she is never mentioned, I think that is significant.. And why, exactly, does Eb hate all vampires so..

1949
DF Spoilers / Re: Prequels
« on: February 03, 2022, 05:05:33 AM »


  Oh I'd like to go back a bit further, Margaret as a little girl, just was her relationship with her father.
More importantly what was her mother like?

1950
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: February 02, 2022, 07:14:04 PM »
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You misconstrue, the punishment room in Arctis Tor is the NeverNever backdoor to Demonreach, but you have to get past Mab AND then Alfred in the real world. But in doing so it provided an idea of the force required to overcome Alfred with a Warden,  so not a total failure. A first attempt at a break in to ascertain how bad the defences were, for a better organised attempt in the future.

What is your evidence for this?  Can you sight a quote from any of the novels or short stories to back this up? Story,chapter, page please.  The only thing close that I can think of is Lea's garden that was connected to Harry's basement apartment.. But that isn't the same as you are suggesting.

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They successfully did the former and failed on the latter. For most beings Demonreach is a one way ticket, word of Alfred is very unlikely to get out. Only a handful of Wardens may have actually been privy to its full secrets with nothing ever written down because of the Archive, and if originally it was only accessed by the NeverNever, (likely as most of its history predates midern transport) its physical location may not have been known, especially as it doesn’t appear on maps. This made it more difficult for Kemmler to get back to Demonreach. Mab had closed the backdoor and made travel to the island by boat dangerous, especially for a wizard whose power is grounded by magic. The connection between Merlin and Mab in Peace Talks has been established

The closest thing to this is when Merlin created the island in the first place, he did emerged from the  Nevernever as described by Alfred and Bob explained to Harry in Cold Days.  However while what you suggest is a cool theory, even a theory has to have some hard evidence either in print or WOJ to back it up.

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listen to the Wind and McCoy are relatively ‘local’ so may have figured out the rough area, getting final directions from Harry, merely confirmed it. As Blackstaff Eb may have been the last to deliver a Prisoner to Demonreach before Harry, presumably via the Never Never. Fortier may have been taken to the island by Rashid in the Never, Never with the blessing of Mab to become Warden and never went back.
No evidence for any of that.. Eb could have possibly taken a prisoner to the island, to what purpose? Eb doesn't have the authority as Warden to bind the prisoner and jail he,she,or it.  Rashid has as little to do with the island as possible, this is clearly stated in his conversation with Harry on What's Up Dock in Turn Coat.  Paraphrasing, "The island has a grudge against me.."
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Mab clearly had met Kemmler, hers is a personal opinion, which tends to support this theory. Rashid would shepherd a new Warden via Arctis Tor and probably make an introduction to Mab. This is pre Accords, so Mab would have been less on speaking terms with the Senior Council and other Wizards at this point, except Rashid.
What is your evidence that "Mab clearly met Kemmler"?  Why would Rashid shepherd a new Warden to meet Mab?  Mab doesn't have anything to do with the island... More pointedly by her reaction in Cold Days to Harry's threat "to sic Alfred on her," she has no say at all on the island.
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Much of the series since Grave Peril has been about (1) controlling Harry and (2) controlling Demonreach with (1) and (2) becoming the same thing in Turn Coat.

If that is Mab's aim, she isn't very successful.. Also it is clear from when Harry awakens in Ghost Story and the exchange between Mab and Alfred, on the island at least, Mab has no control of either Harry or the island.

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