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Messages - Mira

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1936
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: August 28, 2021, 10:12:22 AM »
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For that matter, if Eb falls.. wonder what the Blackstaff could do if IT could tap the Demonreach ley line ?

I think it could, but question then becomes would a binding have to be accepted by the island first or not?  Like I believe Harry could use the Blackstaff to tap the ley line, but could someone else not a Warden of the island?

1937
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 27, 2021, 03:20:11 PM »
Is there really another kind of time travel story?

I'm thinking if that is what it comes down to in the end, it is a real cop out in terms of story telling..
Oh yeah, Harry or someone traveled back in time and altered all of that stuff... That for me at any rate would be a huge disappointment.

1938
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 27, 2021, 04:26:20 AM »
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You're getting your timelines muddled there. The coin was under his lab before PG and it stayed there until the end of book 9 (WN). In book 12 (Changes) it has been several years since book 9 so it would be exceedingly unlikely that Forthill hadn't passed the coin along by then.
My timeline isn't muddled..  You are right it was White Night when Forthill got the coin, however it isn't a stretch to think the coin might sill be locked in his office as of Changes.. We have no clue as to how frequent the coins collected by the Knight are picked up..  We do know it was Lasciel whispering to Harry in Changes which speaks to her coin not being very far away, that is my point.

1939
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: August 27, 2021, 04:20:50 AM »
Ooooooh! I like that reference. (And I'm in a reread cycle one away from TurnCoat). So, years away...it's technically been years (7 in book years, I think...more if you include actual time between release dates). I wonder how he'd handle it now. And I wonder how the Winter Knight mantle would react to the power? Dresden the Unstoppable!

Yeah, well, I can understand that I am in the reread process myself, however I have a stack of other books I am reading through so a Dresden File reread book comes up about once a year, though I've read several of them several times.  That passage happens to be one of my favorites because Rashid is one of my favorite characters.  Another interesting bit in that book is the bit when Harry reads one of Eb's journal entries it's on page 379, it talks about how Harry has no clue as to what he has gotten himself into as far as the island goes.  What's odd is, Eb says that Rashid says to warn Harry about the island would be pointless, yet didn't Rashid just do that very thing by telling Harry not to pull power from that ley line? 

Eb also speaks of a higher power "arranging things" in spite of what they try to do.  Eb talks about the "mantle" I assume of Warden of Demonreach, yet until the end of Ghost Story beginning of Cold Days Harry has no clue that he had just acquired a mantle, the Merlin wants him under surveillance and at that point anyway no one is willing to tell Harry what it is he had just done, or gotten himself into job wise.

However the more I think about it now, given the above passage, and the knowledge that Kemmler was the Warden of Demonreach before Harry, it explains what happens at the end of Battle Ground.
The Council isn't afraid of Harry because he is the Winter Knight, they are afraid because he is the Warden of Demonreach.  That little demo of binding Ethniu and having her dragged away from a distance scared the hell out of them, they think he used the power of the island ley line to do that and could do even more if he took a mind to do it.  Which no doubt he could, if he had to, now it all makes sense, at least to me.  Which begs another question about the ley line, I'm thinking now that Alfred is the ley line.

1940
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 26, 2021, 08:30:36 PM »
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I assume all their magic draws on hellfire including Marcone. But none of them could have thrown hellfire at Arctis Tor without help.

You are ignoring the fact that Namshiel is a fallen angel, even if he isn't an archangel he can wield power beyond the comprehension of most.. So yes, Namshiel could do it without help in my opinion, angels without restraint [the Fallen don't play by the rules, that is why they are fallen] has the power to do it without help.

1941
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: August 26, 2021, 08:24:25 PM »
A thought...Harry is able to bind Ethniu in Battleground on the shores of Lake Michigan and he says that's the extent/limit of his reach. Alfred's power interacts with Harry's now giving his shield, energy, whatever a green tint. If the island and it's prisoners are the source of the ley line energy in the world, and Alfred is the island (hmmm...), shouldn't Harry be able to do a binding from anywhere the ley lines are regardless of his proximity to the island?

He might, but he may not be ready to handle that kind power without doing great harm.  Remember  what Rashid told him about the ley lines and his warning to Harry about them in Turn Coat.  First he tells Harry that the island is the source of the power for the ley line, though at that moment neither he nor Harry knew about the underground prison or it's contents.  If the source of the power for the ley line is indeed the monsters, evil gods, etc with in the prison, it's source while powerful, is also very dark.   

Then Rashid warns Harry about them; page 299
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The Gatekeeper shook his head.  May I offer you two bits of advice?"
I nodded.
"First," he said, "do not tap into the power of this place's well.  You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."

The other bit had nothing to do with the ley line, but the reason why Harry was there so I'm omitting it.  Here is a thought, if Kemmler was the last Warden of Demonreach before Harry, did he try to tap into the dark power of the ley line and was altered and transformed into the evil Kemmler?

1942
DF Spoilers / Re: Anduriel's One Line
« on: August 26, 2021, 04:45:13 PM »
Abraham was told to present his son Isaac as a sacrifice. An Angel stopped him and a ram was used instead.

Yeah, and Andruiel and his boss could care less about human life as long as they achieve their goals.  That is a difference between those who have fallen and those who have not... I wonder if Nic will begin to ask questions to that effect?

1943
DF Spoilers / True Love's Protection
« on: August 26, 2021, 04:42:19 PM »


We know from White Night that Harry was still protected by his love for Susan.  We know because it burned Lara's lips and she was shocked that Harry hadn't been with a woman sexually since Grave Peril or three or four years.  So, I think most here would agree that Harry's love for Murphy was true, so is he not still protected from Lara?   So.....

  1] Is Mab aware of this and banking on her Knight being protected from Lara?
     Is she playing a little three dimensional chess to tie up Lara politically at her Knight's expense?
   2] Does the protection continue if the object of the true love is dead?
   3]  If it does continue, will Harry be unfaithful so he can have sex with Lara?

1944
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 26, 2021, 02:12:52 PM »
He turned Lasciel in after White Night, the book after Proven Guilty, she then took it up some time (implied to be a few weeks or so) after Changes.

After Changes or at the end of Proven Guilty?  Just before he turned the coin over to Father Forthill at the end of Proven Guilty he thought he heard Lash, that scared him so he got rid of the coin.  In Changes it is implied that it was Lasciel that goaded him into suicide, the coin still could have been locked away in Forthill's office.  I don't think she affected Harry after that, implied or otherwise.

1945
DF Spoilers / Re: Who summoned the Cornerhounds?
« on: August 25, 2021, 07:04:46 PM »
Molly has been directly commanded by Mab to see to all the arrangements for the wedding. About the only thing she can do is leak information but I doubt she'd want to put Harry in danger  in any way so she's got to play it pretty straight.

Perhaps, but in the car at the end of the book, she tells Harry when he is ready to act she will be
there for him.  That says to me if there is a way out of it, she is backing her Knight.

1946
DF Spoilers / Re: Star born and the Antichrist
« on: August 25, 2021, 02:36:53 PM »
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That being said, if you look at Harry's darkest moments (particularly the ones where he tried going down the left hand path - e.g. Storm Front when he's outside Sells house & Battle Ground when he tried to kill Rudolph) he looks pretty bad. Really bad. If you look at the language he uses he very much could be that being.
Yes, but in Storm Front if you are talking about when he was outside of the lake front house that Sells owned, I think he was thinking of what is possible verses him going down that road himself.  Yes, he was tempted for the moment, remember he'd slipped on that banana before when he killed Justin, which makes slipping again easier. But then the spirit of his mother saved him, he felt her touch and he clasped the pentacle that came from her, it reminded him of the danger and what he should be about. 

I don't count his feelings when he went after Rudolph when he killed Murphy as the same.  I think the wild range of emotions he felt in that moment can be considered normal, ugly and violent to be sure, but a pure emotional reaction.  Having said that, yes, I know he is a wizard, Winter Knight, which ramps up whatever reaction he was having, and that makes him very dangerous.  Not unlike someone who is armed and witnessing a loved one being killed.  I've read of at least two war time accounts where upon witnessing "buddies" being killed a soldier goes a bit "crazy" taking out numerous machine gun nests etc single handedly.  However that doesn't make him a antichrist or the antichrist.  Now I can be wrong, but from what little I've read, Harry doesn't fit that definition, at least not yet.

From what Basil said;
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So this isn't just a pseudochristos, but THE Pseudochristos.  The Man of Sin is a rebel and a destroyer, an agent of chaos whose hubris and arrogance sets himself above God.  That's what Harry is telling us he could end up being.  And, given the amount of personal power at his disposal .... not an unrealizable goal.

I can see Harry being sorely tempted because he does have what some would call "godlike powers."
Harry doesn't have that kind of hubris.. However I just came across something very interesting when I looked up the definition of "hubris."

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(in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis.


Is it a coincidence or is this what Jim is driving at by calling the Enemy, "Nemesis"?  Or more to the point, Harry is the one to defeat Nemesis because he lacks that kind of pride and defiance?

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I don't necessarily believe it was Malcolm's genetics that played a key role. Rather, it was his parenting. His teachings and modelling of behaviour.
That too, and I think Margaret saw that in Malcolm, it is almost a given that at some point they soul gazed, though I have no proof of that.  She also saw his goodness, there is a reason why over the series Harry is repeatedly told he inherited his father's good heart.  That good heart has prevented him from going too far down the wrong road when he has crossed the line.

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think there is an alternate version that could be the Pseudochrist. Whether the Harry we are familiar with could be is another question.

The temptation is there, with the exception of the Gail, he now has in his possession all the Artifacts we associate with Jesus and the Crucifixion, redemption, salvation, however far one wants to go with it.  So if Harry wanted to set himself of as a Christlike figure and demand a following based on that, he now has the tools.  Actually in Battle Ground when ordinary people followed him under "his Banner,"  if Harry was going to go all pseudochrist on us, that would have been the time.


1947
DF Spoilers / Re: Mac's identity
« on: August 25, 2021, 10:07:48 AM »
I believe this to be misunderstood information (I don't understand it to be honest, it's paradoxical).  The Angels must have free will as we know it.  They were able to revolt (and fall).  Uriel was able to choose to lend his Grace to Michael knowing that there was a chance Michael would misuse it.  All of the Fallen who do bad things were Angels. 

I guess there could have been a change of some kind after the revolt and the angels are much more absolute (to the point of no free will) and unable to fall as long as they don't lend their grace out.

In that sense, yes, I guess you could say that angels have always had free will.  However they have rules, if they break them they fall, most, not all, but most angels chose not to pay that kind of price.

I think Uriel was acting under orders when he loaned his Grace out.  Maybe not to do that exact thing but to do whatever to insure the success of the mission.  I also think Uriel as the angelic wet works man has more wiggle room than most, but still for him it was a huge risk.. Though Michael might be the only mortal man living on the planet that he'd take such a risk with.

1948
DF Spoilers / Re: Mac's identity
« on: August 24, 2021, 09:52:28 PM »
Uriel gave his Grace away. Maybe Raphael did too, knowing it'd be a lot longer before he got it back. A.K.A. the end of the world.

Uriel loaned his Grace temporarily to Michael a Holy Knight to complete  a mission, that isn't the same as giving his Grace away.

1949
Helping Harry's claim with Marcone also means that they can diplomatically kick him out of the apartment and cutting ties.  Two birds, one stone.
That too, that is diplomatically getting him out of their hair without offending Mab, which is important since the Svartalves have no intention of cutting ties with the Accords, especially in these times.

1950
DF Spoilers / Re: Apocalypse is a frame of mind
« on: August 24, 2021, 07:25:09 PM »
Yeah... that's my point.   
Nic isn't working for Nemesis.  By attempting the heist in SG, Nic is acting against the goals of Nemesis.  The outcome being bad for Nic personally isn't really relevant.

Oh, I think ultimately it will be relevant, if it sets Nic on the road to redemption, he may quit the idea of apocalypse and become a valuable ally for Harry.. That is if Harry can accept the idea that Nic is redeemed..  Actually that is how I think it is shaping up, his daughter killed, Harry handing over the Grail to him, yup, look for Nic to join Harry against Nemesis.

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