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Messages - forumghost

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16
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: January 27, 2023, 11:16:37 PM »
au contraire.
Peabody and his inks are their claws.

And they are very effective indeed -- they kept the WC neutered for years.

They kept old-guard/reactionary Morgan on Harry's case for a decade or so, ensuring nobody else (who might be able to teach him about the Starborn biz, or orient him to some of the political & supernatural currents swirling about him) would touch him with a 10' pole.

They kept the Merlin & his faction playing "ultra-conservative & risk-averse," and bickering with the Blackstaff & others who argued for a more-activist Rampire campaign; remember, Maggie LaFey's death-curse is part of why the Whamps were so ineffective... Peabody did the same to the White Council.

Pretty good payback from 1 embedded agent ...


I'm pretty sure that what he's implying is that, to a suspicious mind with incomplete information, Harry could just as easily be taken as a Black Council member himself.

Who is the one Warden that isn't influenced by Peabody? Dresden. Who was Luccio brainwashed into starting a relationship with? Dresden. Where does the "Traitor" Morgan go for help when he's caught for killing LaFortier? Dresden. etc, etc.

Rashid even points this out when he confronts Harry at Demonreach in Turn Coat.

17
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: January 26, 2023, 07:41:33 PM »
Just what would you have Harry do in this case?  For at least a year after he saved Molly he was considered dead..  Then for another year Mab confined him to Demonreach.. Actually it was Rashid that restored him to the Council.

Dude, there was literally 4 years between Molly's trial and the events of Changes. In that time the only interaction the Council had with Harry was
"Hey guys, need you to help me save a bunch of Mind Rapists" (White Knight)
"Hey guys, need you to help me save a Mob Don" (Small Favor) and
"Hey guys I've been sheltering that Traitor you're after, come fight me on my creepy supervillain Island if you don't like it" (Turn Coat).

Like, we know that's not how any of those situations really were, but to the average Council member...

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After standing up for Molly he was considered a possible political rival for Langtree, a bit of a polarizing figure pitting older wizards verses the younger.  He did uncover Peabody, didn't fight the need to find an innocent Morgan guilty.  So if uncovering the fact that their trusted secretary was using ink to mind rape the lot of them didn't endear Harry to the Council, do you think showing up to meetings and smiling would?

Not many people knew that, to the Council as a whole Morgan was the main traitor, remember? The Senior Council and other upper echelons is a bit different, but to most, that's how it went down.

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Michael isn't an ordinary Joe, he is a Holy Knight..

Michael has one of the weaknesses that all KOTC have- he has to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when they don't deserve it (it's why Murphy didn't make the grade) so him vouching for Harry is a mixed bag, assuming the Council even bothered to notice him, which I doubt.

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Morgan was no traitor, all of the crap Peabody did was covered up.

Hence the quotes around 'Traitor'.

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And right after that scene you are talking about Langtree takes Harry to one side and says he wants Harry to deal with her and the Red Court, but keep the Council's hands clean... Harry actually manages that, but it didn't earn him any brownie points with the Council.

No, Langtry tells Harry to sit out of it, forget about the random kidnapped girl (nobody knew it was his daughter) and not fuck up the Council's plan to wipe out the Red Court. The fact that Harry went and wiped out the Red's all by himself anyway probably just made them nervous.


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All of that is BS, the truth of the matter is the Council is scared shitless of Harry.  They may have had a hand in him being a starborn, but he is proving that he isn't their weapon to wield.  He got their attention when he called up Za'Gard, Toot and his little motes of light men proved they could handle the flying squid things when Senior Council members couldn't
. He is Warden of Demonreach, not sure if they know he is holder of the Spear or not, being Winter Knight is just a side show.. He has influence in both Winter and Summer Courts, with the Holy Knights, with the White Court, especially if he does marry Lara.  Truth is, once he figures it out, Harry will realize he is a power on to himself that can rival the White Council, and they know it... No amount of playing nice is going to get any amount of trust from the Council.. That ship has sailed

I mean yes, I absolutely agree. I just think that if Harry had taken an hour a month to show up to Council meetings, rub a couple shoulders, made a little small-talk, he'd have never had to deal with any of this shit (obviously this would have had to be pre-Changes, since after that he's never had the opportunity to do so).

18
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: January 26, 2023, 05:36:23 PM »
Maybe you answered your own question with that.  Though the Council are wizards, and many of them are hundreds of years old, basically they are still human. Half of them never trusted Harry because of who his mother was, nor liked him.  Harry can gain their respect, which he has, but that isn't the same as trust.  Trust, they will never give him, because they fear him.

Ramirez said, "talk to me.."Those are words police say when they want a confession from a suspect.  He wasn't asking it as a friend, the vibs from Chandler warned Harry of that.  Harry has a right to remain silent because anything he'd say could and would be used against him.   Maybe trust but verify would be more apt here, Ramirez didn't come to Harry as a friend,he came as a cop, he had Harry scanned for recent sexual activity, he came in force [by that I mean he had other Wardens with him], all this screams that Harry was already suspected of something.  So if you were Harry, would you have trusted him?

Oh for sure, the time for Harry to start earning the Council's trust was well before Peace Talks. All I'm saying is that if Harry, after acknowledging that he'd need to start playing politics after saving Molly, had actually bothered to... play politics, instead of ignoring the Council until he next wanted a favour, he might have been better off for it. Instead he allowed his enemies on the White Council to act freely, relying on his connection to Eb to keep him in good standing despite never taking part in Council meetings, or doing his Warden duties, or generally acting like he was ever part of the White Council at all.

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And Knight of the Cross Michael cussed in several languages words that even Harry didn't know...

I mean yeah, Michael has all the Context and stuff about Harry's actions that make him seem reasonable and not a nut-job, but the Council doesn't because the only times that the Council has seen Harry recently was Turn Coat where hard-core-loyalist-turned-'traitor' Morgan died to save him, and Changes, where he barges into a meeting and tries to murder an envoy before fucking off with no explanation.

The Council are wrong and also assholes, I won't deny it, but it's like... Harry does himself no favours with the way he approaches them, is all I'm saying. Like, I want to shake that boy sometimes and tell him to stop being so anti-social and self-sabotaging.

Though I have to say that the councils reasoning of we think Harry has been corrupted let's make sure that he only talks to monsters and let's take away our protection so he would have to make deals with them isn't what I would expect from a group of people with thousands of years of experience. It makes more sense if mab was behind it all. She never struck me as someone who shares well

Oh yeah I have no doubt that Mab had a hand in this, it feels very much her style. And the fact that the Council just went 'lol lets cut this guy off and hope that someone kills him for us' is really fucking dumb, because it:

A) Cuts off any potential leverage/influence the Council has on him and

B) Makes no fucking sense, since the Council never protected Dresden from jack shit, and everyone knows it. Remember that time when the Council almost sold him to the Red Court? Remember the time when someone sold him on Ebay and they did shit all?

But no, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it was partly either Mab's agents in the Council cutting him off so that he'd be easier to mold, or Black Council agents ensuring Harry didn't ruin their next plan to take over the White Council, or something.

19
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: January 26, 2023, 10:15:36 AM »
My point is that the Council doesn't trust Harry because Harry never bothered to do anything that would actually engineer trust, despite knowing that they didn't like him.

The situation with Ramirez and the rest of the Council sucks, but it's very much a problem of Harry's own making, because as much as the White Council has treated Harry like shit, Harry has equally treated the Council like shit.

Like, this entire conflict could have been avoided, it only happened because Harry refused to interact with the Council except when he needs them to fight a war he started or save him from necromancers.

20
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: January 25, 2023, 07:43:54 PM »
The Title is wrong, Ramirez Should Have Trusted Harry. Carlos is keeping secrets from Harry, the tracker, his true instructions from the White Council,  not telling him how he got injured, still refusing to admit he is a virgin, but who is vouching for Carlos?

Have you ever heard the expression "Trust is a Two-Way Street"?

Like yeah, I agree that the Council are a bag of dicks. But here's the thing...

Since when has Harry ever tried to do anything that makes him seem trustworthy to them? The answer is never. He just acts like they should have read his mind and know that he's a good guy, obviously.

Ramirez and the Council don't know that Harry has a brother, just that he's apparently super-tight with a bunch of Mind-Rapists.

Ramirez and the Council don't know about his daughter, just that one day Harry decided to join the Queen of evil faeries and immediately committed genocide.

Ramirez and the Council don't know what happened on Demonreach, just that two demigods were murdered and replaced with people that Harry is allied with.

Ramirez and Harry don't know that it was a double cross, but they probably know that Harry was making friendly with Nicodemus recently.

Remember, if you haven't been reading the books, Harry looks dodgy as fuck.

21
DF Spoilers / Re: The fae slaves
« on: January 09, 2023, 10:13:40 AM »
I think it's not exactly "slavery," for example their movement is largely unrestrained.  They can travel the world wherever they want, whenever they want.

But, I take your point -- there is no "I quit" clause in the Mantle.

It's more like being part of a criminal gang (that kills you rather than letting you quit); which makes Miss Carpenter a gangster Moll...   ;D

Personally I consider the Mantle to be worse then slavery. Even a slave can still reside safely in the sanctity of their own mind. Those with a Mantle though? Straight up mindraped into being what their masters want them to be.

22
Oh yeah that's absolutely what Mab is doing. It's textbook stuff for abusers (and make no mistake, that's what Mab is) to isolate their victims from others to better manipulate them. It's why she cut off Harry when he was stuck on demonreach, it's why she tries to get Molly to abandon her human side/family.

 It's much easier to control people when they have nobody but you to turn to.

23
To be fair, most of the White Council doesn't show up, because Harry never talks to them unless he wants them to do him a favour, or to fight a war for him or something.

24
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim interview
« on: September 21, 2022, 09:01:58 PM »
I mean that seems kinda normal, do you assume that because someone let you into their house once, you can therefore come in whenever you like?

Seems to me that would be far more rude.

25
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon con videos?
« on: September 09, 2022, 09:30:11 PM »
I mean do we really need the videos? We already know what he's going to be asked:

How did you come up with the Dresden Files?

Why Chicago?

What about the Jade Court?

26
DF Spoilers / Re: Maggie white council spy
« on: September 08, 2022, 02:44:18 AM »
I mean according to what Lash said in White Night:

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I wished I could have raised my eyebrows. Possessed by what?

"An Outsider," Lasciel said. "I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the mind of the Outsider."

Gosh, that was interesting. Not relevant, but interesting.

"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth - because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."

So the most obvious guess is that Maggie Sr got out because she realized that she had accidentally joined Cthulu's team and did a 180, deciding to have a Starborn Child because "shit I really fuck up there didn't I?"

27
DF Spoilers / Re: What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?
« on: August 26, 2022, 06:43:49 AM »
Harry was still a minor in calling upon Lea for the first time he could not make a bargain with her.

Err... yes he did. The bargain he had with Lea was the one that he made before he faced Justin- his life for the power to face his Master (though Lea cheated him with the magic feather).

Harry even calls her out on this at the start of Grave Peril "You shouldn't make contracts with a Minor" were his words iirc.
It's just that Harry was able to avoid fulfilling his end of the bargain because Lea was mostly content to wait in the Never Never. Harry's breakdown at Bianca's party was because it was Lea's third time demanding he keep the Bargain (once as a teenage, once after he and Michael fought the ghost, once at the party) and rule of three caused his magic to fuck him up for breaking his word.

28
DF Spoilers / Re: What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?
« on: August 25, 2022, 06:35:01 PM »
As an aside, this also means that Mab had to take over paying the Za Guard while Harry was stuck in AT, which I find hilarious.

Imagine Mab in a shitty chain pizza restaurant.

29
DF Spoilers / Re: What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?
« on: August 19, 2022, 11:33:30 PM »
  Not necessarily so, someone or thing had plans for the young star born.  Actually Justin could have killed Malcolm, since he did or nearly enthrall Elaine, Justin knew mind magic.  We still don't know the cause of death as written on a certificate somewhere, all we know is supposedly Malcolm died with a smile on his face.  Lord knows what a warlock could do with mind magic.  We've seen what the Corpsetaker can do, she nearly killed Harry with it.

True, but if a Raith went after Malcolm, they'd want Margaret's son dead for sure.

 My money would be on Justin getting Harry isolated and desperate in the system so he could swoop in and 'save' him as the more likely candidate.

30
DF Spoilers / Re: What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?
« on: August 19, 2022, 10:46:39 PM »
Imho the real problem with a Wamp killing Malcolm is that they would absolutely have killed harry too.

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