I would not be surprised but be lenient with him. After all, he has not access to a forum where hundreds of people discuss every detail of his life  . He has to figure it all, all by himself.

Bob and paranoid Gary have access to this forum.

That is because he is a suicide, many religions believe one cannot go to Heaven.  However he was a good man, so he works for Uriel in Heaven, but not.  Murphy didn't suicide, lived a good life, she should go to Heaven.

Actually Murphy’s father still has free will. He can still change himself. He might go to heaven later. Or he might go now but does not want to yet.

What are their pagan beliefs then?

Their whole attitude is pre Christian.

What makes them pagan? Other than a derogatory denotation? Also, we don't actually know they aren't christian per se. Lea responds deeper to Michaels oath on the blood of christ than any other thing.

It is serious power. She recognizes that. But that is not the same as being a Christian.

They also adhere to the three primary movers of faith, keeping to ones word hope,to do ones duty and love, homestead laws.

Duty? Love? Homestead laws?

Those are not specific Christian values. To claim that is more insulting than using the word pagan as meaning non Christian.

So how are they pagan when they pay lip service to TWG and hold no faith of their own?

They are, or mostly were, the objects of faith. And mark how Mab talks about the white god. She recognizes him as a power but it is not her god, the term itself is a giveaway. It is a Viking term to introduce a foreign god.

And of course she is better at torturing people. Tree days at a cross, Slate suffered more.

Why, I could argue they are christian (heck, Santa Clause is a fae and Mab respects Christmas, Christ's day) in that that is the only deity they show deference towards.

Christmas is a pagan festival with some very superficial Christian additions. Kringle is certainly not a Christian saint. That tree is not a representation of the cross and that sacrificial turkey is not the body of Christ.

-Oh come on. The difference there is obvious. If you ask someone to murder someone it is equivalent to doing the murder yourself because you are asking for something that is not justified for the person (or for you) to do. Asking Molly to take risks and kill Harry is perfectly justifiable. It is Harry's life, so he can ask someone to end it if he pleases, especially since he was doing it to prevent his being used by Mab.

-So what. Molly knew back when she was tried the first time that there would be severe consequences if she was found out again.

And it was Harry’s responsibility to protect her from that and teach her to make better decisions. She was his pupil, this was not the right way to teach her.

Second, its not clear that she was necessarily going to be caught.

Is something morally just because you might not get caught?

Third, its not the cliff situation because her death was not certain.

Comparisons stop somewhere. Ramirez did not do his job. But ir was certain enough for the comparison to be valid.

Clearly, as she is still alive. Dresden didn't deprive her of her ability to defend herself or hide from the WC.

So giving someone a mortal enemy is ok because you can defend yourself? Lea made sure she could handle herself against the enemy she summoned in ghost story for molly but she arranged it as a learning experience for Harry and Molly and accepted the risk.

Fourth, Molly's situation was beyond Dresden's control and he is not responsible for what the WC does to her.

He created that situation by his suicide. You might say that was Lasciel’s fault but she only provided the tipping point, it was totally in character.

And he asked her to assist in that. That was his choice.

And as her master she was not beyond his control or responsibility. It was a responsibility he took upon himself

Fifth, she was going to be up a creek without a paddle anyhow since Dresden was going to be the winter knight if she didnt kill him or wipe his memories.

Which was totally self centered. He deserted his friends. But that is what a lot of suicides have in common.

Maybe I am forgetting something, but I would love to know how the WC was supposed to know that Molly was responsible for wipe his memories. Could have been anyone, including Harry. Hell, how did they know Dresden had his memories wiped after making the deal with Mab?

That was not a violation of the seven laws in that act anyway because Harry invited Molly in his mind. The problem was his suicide. Without Harry the white council would hunt Molly whatever one of them did.

-I am perfectly within my rights to sell you a mortgage you cannot handle so long as you know the details of the mortgage. Its hardly my responsibility to stop someone from being an idiot. I, not anyone else, was born into this world with a responsibility to stop idiots from being idiots.

In some countries you are not. And this is not about what is legally right, you knowingly create problems for people they can not solve and have dire consequences for them. That is morally wrong. It is predatory behavior whatever you tell yourself.

People who think they have the right to do everything that the law allows them to do and so everything they do is morally right have no conscience.

-There is no such thing as hell. And if there were, it would be more morally reprehensible than anything discussed here.

It is a metaphor to underline how wrong that behavior is. See it as the einsteinian hell.

The new Queen might want a symbolic reenactment of the signing of the contract.  You know, just to demonstrate to the rest of Winter that the new Queen and current Winter Knight are in accord with one another, and not at all because Molly has had a thing for Harry for years and is currently being forced to wear the equivalent of an unbreakable magical fae chastity belt.

She might suggest it but Molly won’t force Harry in this.

Here is a thought that I've been having, if Molly got the Queen's mantle, would Harry have to have sex with her like he did Mab in front of the whole Winter Court?  That might do things to both Harry and Molly that would echo through out Winter.

Probably not. I do not think Mab had sex with all Maeves throwaway knights.

Or one has an over active guilt complex,

Sometimes and not always about the right things. His guilt about killing Susan was unnecessary but the guilt about Molly came far too late.

and gives his apprentice absolutely no credit for making her own choices

Molly had her own responsibilities but that does not change Harry’s responsibilities. You are responsible for what you ask of people especially when you have a better idea of the consequences than the one you ask.

whether they were right or wrong.  Perhaps his choices were wrong, but he didn't force her to make the wrong choices, she did that on her own.

Nothing she did with magic was on her own. She was under the doom. Following the councils rules Harry was responsible, with his head, for everything she did.

Basically he asked her to commit near suicide for his benefit while he was responsible for her well being. Just saying that she was an adult is not enough.

That is the logic of a con man. You sell someone a bridge and you say things like she is an adult, she is responsible for her choices, she should have known, ...

There is a limit to that. You are always responsible for what you ask from someone. That does not cancel the other persons responsibility but Harry has responsibility too.

Yes, Eb with the White Vampires is the magical equivalent of this


Also, why is Harry involved with so many WC? (White Council, White Court of vampires, Winter Court)

You forgot the Water Closet. The only WC everyone knows.