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Messages - Tarion

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DFRPG / Re: Relations between Summer Court and Black Court
« on: February 27, 2013, 12:04:05 PM »
Honestly, I don't buy the idea that the Summer Court would be opposed to genocide.
They're about growth and progress sure, but they don't seem to hold reverence for any particular species.  To quote Bob in Summer Knight
"A war [between the Courts] could start the next ice age, or set off an era of rampant growth."
"That last one doesn't sound so bad."
"No. Not if you're an Ebola virus. You'll have lots of friends."
The idea that every species matters is a distinctly human one, and I doubt the Summer Sidhe care.  They're not conservationists.  In fact, if anything, that would fall under the kinder aspects of Winter - Stasis. 

If a species, such as the Black Court, is no longer suited to it's environment, it's natural that it will be supplanted by more powerful, better suited creatures.  The Black Court is an evolutionary dead end, and the sooner they're cleared away, the sooner new life can replace them. 

And that's even if you accept "undead" as a form of life, which I don't think is necessarily justified in the Dresden Files. 

DFRPG / Re: What places in history would you DFRP in?
« on: February 17, 2013, 01:16:13 AM »
I just choose to ignore continuity. It's just easier
Ignoring continuity is easier, true, but I get an absurd glee from messing with history without continuity consequences. 

There's just something deeply satisfying about being able to smack down characters who annoy you in the fiction, without being stuck with thoughts of what comes next. 

DFRPG / Re: What places in history would you DFRP in?
« on: February 17, 2013, 12:39:27 AM »
Europe during World War 1. 

It's got a lot more ambiguity morally speaking than WW2, and has the undead focus from what we know about Kemmler.

Spoilers up to Ghost Story:
(click to show/hide)

DFRPG / Re: The Doctor and the TARDIS, how to stat?
« on: February 13, 2013, 05:58:06 PM »
That's really just Rapport and maybe Deceit, though, not everything. His actual Intimidation should actually be pretty low (though he has high Presence and occasionally seems to have Weight of the Reputation).
It depends on the Doctor, I think.  As NewWho goes on, Weight of the Reputation is more and more relevant.  I mean, the overarching plot of Season 5 and 6 is that the Doctor is so terrifying that multiple superpowers are aligning to deal with him (although he loses it for Season 7).  The "I'm the Doctor... look me up" speech of Forest of the Dead is the epitome of Weight of the Reputation, to my mind, and the speech at the end of Eleventh Hour (The one that ends with "Hello. I'm the Doctor. Basically. Run.") is another great example.   

DFRPG / Re: The Doctor and the TARDIS, how to stat?
« on: February 13, 2013, 01:34:47 AM »
He's not any more bulletproof than anyone else, after all.
That's true.

Having thought about it some more, the issue comes down to the Doctor not really fitting the Dresden Files.  The Dresden Files are a fairly hard magic system, and the game represents that pretty well.  Creature X has Power Y.  Power Y gives benefits Z.  Doctor Who, by contrast, is sci-fi as soft as soft-serve ice cream on a warm day. 

The best way to represent the Doctor, for me, is going to be entirely through aspects, which are the softer side of the Dresden Files.  He'd be entirely at home in FATE Core, really.  The Powers section of the DFRPG doesn't really fit, because powers in Doctor Who vary according to the demands of plot.  On the other hand, that's exactly how aspects work too. 

The Doctor is just a character with a lot of Fate points, some fairly well-rounded aspects, and a tendency to take every compel that comes his way.  His toughness is just him Invoking his "Timelord Biology" to shrug off things that would kill regular people.  He can Invoke his "Sonic Screwdriver" aspect to open doors, mess with computers, as a sensor, or as virtually anything else the player can think of (But it doesn't do wood).  He'd be frequently compelled to get involved with the troubles of other people - I'd be tempted to use "old, and kind, and the very last of his kind" (The Beast Below) as the Eleventh Doctor's Trouble, for example.  It basically sums up the beginning of season 5.  The end of Season 5 and throughout Season 6, his trouble would reference the fact that he's got a lot of people against him.  I'd be tempted to go with "And all this in fear of him", as a reference to River's speech in "A Good Man Goes to War". 

This was exactly you. All this, all of it. You make them so afraid. When you began, all those years ago, sailing off to see the universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name? Doctor? The word for healer and wise man, throughout the universe. We get that word from you, you know. But if you carry on the way you are, what might that word come to mean? To the people of the Gamma Forests, the word "Doctor" means mighty warrior. How far you've come. And now they've taken a child... the child of your
best friends... and they're going to turn her into a weapon, just to bring you down. And all this, my fear of you.

Having said all of that, I realise that this isn't too useful if you're actually wanting him in your game.  But I think it's still a good starting point.  And if you're in a sufficiently low power game, giving him a good spread of aspects and a ton of Fate points wouldn't be a bad way to play him.  If he's getting into combat, something has gone wrong (but in terms of Social conflicts, I'd watch out.  He's fully capable of breaking pretty much anyone By talking, and frequently concedes physical conflicts in order to give him the opportunity), so quibbling over whether he has Inhuman Recovery or Inhuman Toughness is probably not too necessary.

DFRPG / Re: The Doctor and the TARDIS, how to stat?
« on: February 12, 2013, 11:46:01 PM »
And the doctor has no Toughness at all, much less Mythic.
I'm not sure I'd agree.  The Doctor regularly survives things that would kill regular people.  I'd certainly consider him for Inhuman Toughness. 

Examples: He thinks that he's the only one who has a "chance" to survive being hooked up to the computer in Forest of the Dead.  In Aliens of London, he survives the electric shock that kills everyone else.  There's probably a load more, but none of them leap out at me at the moment. 
This is true. I dont think he would have human form either. None of his "powers" are ever gone
The only time I'd consider Human Form is if he's using the watch he uses in Human Nature and Family of Blood - The one that literally turns him into a human.  For those episodes, I'd stat him with human form. 
I'm gonna be honest, this whole plot device thing always kinda makes me groan. It's as if people are so impressed by something fictional that they want it to be awesome in a way that mere mortals cannot quantify. Even if it clearly isn't.
The thing is, the TARDIS just doesn't have a set of abilities that are consistent.  It's been used to wipe out entire races (See: The Parting of the Ways), create paradoxes (The Sound of Drums) and destroy and then re-create the Universe (The Big Bang).  And despite this, it's virtually useless the vast majority of the time.  It's major role is getting the Doctor to where he needs to be, and then keeping him there.  It's powers and utility exist as they're required to by plot.  It's a time-travelling, indestructible, bigger-on-the-inside deus ex machina, essentially.  With a pool and a library. 

Honestly, I'd be almost tempted to stat her as a character, rather than an item of power.  Modular abilities, and some well phrased aspects might fit better than trying to write her as an Item of Power. 

DFRPG / Re: Law Talk
« on: February 12, 2013, 01:08:52 PM »
No it isn't.
Could you elaborate on this?

Because I was very careful to avoid saying something like "three times that deadly", or "three times that force".  But in terms of stress, it really does have three times the stopping power (in the sense of being able to "incapacitate the target where it stands"), which implies to me that it's going to convey a decent amount of force.
Sleep spells are almost violations of the Fourth Law, not the First.
Yeah, I realise I didn't specifically state that, but I'm talking in terms of all of the Laws, not just the first.
And an electricity-as-tazer spell or spirit-based blood choke should be able to take someone out without killing 'em pretty well.
I'm not sure about the blood choke, but tasers have quite a death toll.  They're not non-lethal, they're just less-lethal. 
But at heart, no, I don't think making people worry about this is unfair, but I'd suggest you're doing it the wrong way, because you're violating the rules to achieve that effect.
Which rule?  Because the rules are quite clear that it needs to be within the limits of reason.  And as the guy who's most familiar with setting and the rules, what I say is essentially going to serve as my group's limits of reason.  That's why I'm concerned about being unfair - I don't want my reading of the setting to be unnecessarily punitive, when it's essentially going to be taken as canon.
Instead, I suggest Compels on their High Concept. If they accept, using magic on those poor mortals is too dangerous and they either don't do it or risk Lawbreaker, if they refuse the Compel, they find a non-lethal spell. Do this every time it comes up and everyone has to be pretty careful, but the rules remain unchanged and there's no unfairness. You can do the same thing on a cop shooting people or other such situations, too.
I do like this take on it, and it was probably a large part of how I was going to go about it in the first place. 

Personally, I'm a strong proponent of Ebenezer, given that we know he knows how to get into Harry's basement, that he can break the Laws of Magic (and thus frolic against the currents of time to his heart's content), was in Chicago at the time and had an interest in protecting Harry.  I'll try to put up a thread with all of the evidence for the Index later. 
I still think Mab's a better fit, overall. 

DFRPG / Re: Law Talk
« on: February 12, 2013, 01:11:35 AM »
The thing is, Fate mechanics are somewhat narrative. I agree that it's unreasonable to knock someone out harmlessly with a Weapon:12 fireball, but I'd suggest that a Weapon:12 terramantic spell should be able to painfully but non-lethally pin my enemies to the ground for long enough that I can either hogtie or shoot them (with a nice non-magical revolver), either of which is a taken-out result which doesn't lead to a Lawbreaker stunt.
And doing that occasionally would be fine for me.  But I think that if you're repeatedly hitting people with that degree of force (remember, shooting someone with a handgun is a weapon 2.  A grenade is a weapon 4.  Weapon 12 is three times that stopping power) crushing people seems like a serious risk.

And if you're leaving corpses that have been battered with magic before death, the Wardens would be knocking on your door. 

DFRPG / Re: Law Talk
« on: February 12, 2013, 12:35:30 AM »
I'm curious as to whether this forum considers my position on the Laws to be fundamentally unfair.  Controversial, I'm fine with, as I see virtually every position on the Laws can (and is) protested, but I'm less cool with reading the Laws in a way that's unfair to spellcasters.

My general position is that if you're regularly throwing around lots of shifts of power aimed at mortals, you're going to be risking Lawbreaking, or at least the Wardens.  As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as absolutely "safe" magic when you're throwing it at humans.  Sleep magic is shown to be potentially lethal at high-powers with Agatha Hagglethorn.  When Harry does it in Turn Coat, he says it's considered "grey magic".  The mind fog is considered a violation in Summer Knight.

So if you're going to consistently throw around masses of power, and then try to narrate it as "and they all took enough damage to be Taken Out, while somehow surviving" I'm probably going to balk and suggest that you're pushing it beyond the "realm of reason".  For me, the "World of Cardboard"* nature of Wizards in the Dresdenverse is a key part of the setting.  It's like Luccio said in Turn Coat:
And for gaining control over others, for gathering great power to oneself, there is no better tool than black magic... Without resorting to black magic, the amount of damage an individual can inflict on mortal society is limited... the Laws of Magic are not about justice... They are about restraining power

That just doesn't fit with Wizards who are able to frequently and safely disable other humans.

And even if you are regularly burning someone close to death and leaving them, or putting people into comas, or anything else of the sort, you're certainly going to have the Wardens sitting on your ass, just waiting for you to push it.  In fact, I don't see them messing around with people who get even close to breaking the Laws.  According to canon they're not too concerned about whether or not you're actually guilty.     
*"I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die"

Something to consider with this - The Outsider backed Entropy curse in Blood Rites.
with an effort of will I caught the dark power coursing down into the girl before it could do her harm.
Pain erupted in my left palm. The power was cold—and not mountain-breeze cold, either. It was slimy and nauseating, like something that had come slinking out from the depths of some enormous subterranean sea. In that instant of contact, my head exploded with terror. This power, this black magic, was wrong. Fundamentally, nightmarishly, intensely wrong.

The other thing to watch out for is that greasy is also used a fair bit for the Red Court's bat-like form, alongside slimy (and flabby, but I suspect that's less relevant). 

(click to show/hide)

So Arianna's power being greasy might just be because she herself is greasy, rather than because of an Outside influence. 

DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 20, 2013, 02:53:01 AM »
This is a perfect set up for players to get clever.  They either force the target to bleed himself try of FP, or accept the compel.  Clever players would try to stage a fight to force FP drain, while focusing entirely on defense.  Take off, regroup, and him the big bad knowing he has no FP left and can't fight off the aspect from the ritual.
The example that jumps to mind is the fight in the Aquarium in Small Favor. A ritual that shuts down all casters in the area, represented through an Aspect on all of them, compelled whenever they try to cast? 

Harry running out of juice is him spending his last Fate point and being forced to accept the compel.  Everyone else is able to buy out of it for longer.

At least, I think that example works.  I'm not sure how else I'd model that situation. 

DFRPG / Re: Is the fate system the best for the book series
« on: January 18, 2013, 02:10:43 PM »
I just can't get passed the idea that your limited to 3-4 spells. It doesn't matter how creative you are with them or what they can do in theory, you basically cast one defensive spell and hope it will last a few passes of the engagement. and you have 1-2 shots at taking out the bad guy.
Can you give me an example where Harry uses much more than that, in a single fight?

Spoilers through to Turn Coat. 

(click to show/hide)

There's a reason Harry carries his gun, and uses force rings.  There's a reason Wardens carry swords.  Harry pushes himself to the limit of his casting in virtually every book, and he does it with just a couple of spells per encounter.  The rules match the game system pretty damn well, as I see it. 

DFRPG / Re: I need help on a Skin walker
« on: January 16, 2013, 12:25:36 PM »
There's this in the Resources section.  Obviously, it's a bit higher rated than where you're aiming for, but it should give you a good starting point. 

DFRPG / Re: A Question about Catches and Toughness
« on: January 13, 2013, 01:34:19 AM »
The same could be said of cold iron and the Fae. That one's on wikipedia. And yet, it's only a +3 Catch (+1 from knowledge, +2 from being common as dirt). That +2 from knowledge is really stingily given out in the default universe.
I'd argue there's a pretty big difference.
Having to look it up on wikipedia is significantly less well known than being such a significant part of popular culture.  Assuming that you're setting your game in the English-speaking parts of the West, a good amount of knowledge of Christianity (or more specifically, Catholicism, I suppose) should be taken for granted.  It's such a core, underlying part of the culture that it's pretty hard to have a good cultural awareness without picking up things, even if it's just watching the Exorcist, or reading Hellblazer.

That said, I strongly disagree with the Fae only getting +1 for knowledge.  It's explicitly stated in the rulebooks that +1 is for when it "requires
access to specific research material that could be restricted (like a wizard’s library)".  Wikipedia doesn't fit that at all, nor does the Fairy Lore Handbook, by Ashliman, or Faeries, by Froud.  Both books, by the way, mention the weakness to iron, and Amazon could have them delivered within the next 24 hours or so.  Frankly, I don't think it could get much easier for me to find out, short of having it as general cultural knowledge that I'd pick up naturally. 

The idea that they should be getting +4, but it's capping out makes a lot more sense to me.   

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