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Messages - Tarion

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Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Should I feel offended?
« on: October 27, 2015, 09:39:56 AM »
It could also be a take on historic Spanish economic inefficency with regards to how the silver mines of the New World inflated the Spanish economy in the 1600s.

Basically, I am looking at this as a basis for the European Spaniards, and not in connection with Latin America.  But then again, I do not have any roots in Latin America to notice that potential point of view.
Yeah, I think you've really got to stretch to tie it into Latin America.  I mean, I get why people from that part of the world would do that, but I think that's something that the readers are bringing to the book, rather than something already there. 

Spain's economic troubles and it's imperialism aren't really controversial.  Reading it, it felt like fairly clear parallels with Phillip II, who faced multiple state bankruptcies (Even with rampant imperialism), sent the Spanish Armada against England, and had notable corruption - He sold off state roles to people with money, but without talent. 

Yes, I think Auroran and Olympian have their own languages. You are right in that.
Given that Albion means Britain, it does make sense that they speak the English language and use Imperial units.  And if you think it's bad reading about a place that uses a lot of Imperial units, imagine living here. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« on: October 13, 2015, 07:07:16 AM »
Also, I am not sure the piracy involves deaths. If the attacked ships surrender, I don't see the need of casualties. After all, ships have shields
But, as established at the beginning of the book, Predator's MO is to drop on the target and attack them before their shroud is up.  Given their lack of armour, the only way that attack can work is if they cripple the ship straight away.

And when they find the ship's shroud is up, they blow away a 30 foot section of hull, almost definitely killing crew. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« on: October 12, 2015, 09:08:05 PM »
I used "evil ex-wife" for reference. It means it was evil for Grimm because she stole things from him and cheated in the race. And what she did could be legit war targets but she allowed the death of inocents, so she is reprehensible for me. So I have two critics. One as a character. It's a cliché and not a good one. The other is as the character's actions, which I don't like.
Ah, I see.

I think I disagree on both.

For the "evil ex wife" bit, I just don't think that's the trope that Butcher is going with.  She might be a rival, but I see her working with Grimm just as easily as against him.  Yes, she cheated in the race, but that doesn't seem out of character for Grimm to do back to her, which to me makes it feel more like competition and less like they're enemies.  But we'll see how that develops in time. 

As for the death of innocents, do you feel the same way about Grimm?  Because he was, essentially, a pirate at the start of the book (A privateer attacking ships outside of wartime is basically indistinguishable from state sanctioned piracy).  He's being used to attack targets that the Spire Navy can't officially target.  A good chunk of that will involve the death of innocents - The Cortez class he attacks at the beginning is officially a merchant vessel and he has no problem blowing holes in the ship, no doubt killing people on board. 

How is him attacking merchant ships during peace time different than her attacking essentially the same ships for the other side while they're at port? 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Dogs
« on: October 12, 2015, 02:47:35 PM »
Fair enough.  Okay, so dogs lived sometime in the past, and barely anyone knows what they are now.

FWIW, having grown up with bible stories, I never understood why nimrod was an insult.  I mean sure he wasn't a role model, but still.
its all Bugs Bunny's fault. 
In 20th-century American English, the term is now commonly used to mean a dimwitted or a stupid person, a usage first recorded in 1932 and popularized by the cartoon character Bugs Bunny, who sarcastically refers to the hunter Elmer Fudd as "nimrod", as an ironic connection between "mighty hunter" and "poor little Nimrod", i.e. Fudd.

Basically, because people didn't get the reference they didn't understand the sarcasm. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Minerals.
« on: October 12, 2015, 02:28:51 PM »
Hard labour on the surface, would be my first thought.  We know they use it for punishment, after all.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was their major punishment method.

Also - Is it possible that the spires extend below the surface?  They could have been built in mineral rich areas.  With trade between different spires to fill out the gaps in their local supply. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Dogs
« on: October 12, 2015, 02:25:34 PM »

Fact is that "bitch" is used several times during the series, by different people (though they might have all been aeronaughts).  This implies a wider familiarity.
We live in a world in which Nimrod was accidentally redefined by Bugs Bunny to mean an idiot. 

People are often unfamiliar with the roots of their language.  I wouldn't take someone using "bitch" as an insult as evidence they're familiar with dogs, any more than I would assume someone using nimrod as an insult was familiar with the biblical character. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Light
« on: October 12, 2015, 10:31:56 AM »
I imagine there could be veins of crystal through the Spire rock, carrying light through the Spire.  Essentially, built in lighting strips.

But there's no textual evidence for it (yet).

Someone needs to ask Jim  :P

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Etherealists in airship combat
« on: October 12, 2015, 09:34:45 AM »
Given that Predator seems to have something of a personality itself, I'm not sure that a smart etherealist will pick that fight.  It seems possible, maybe even likely, that the blasts (powered by her core crystal) are essentially an extension of her self. 

Maybe relevant - Cavendish didn't try to use Folly's crystals against her.  Maybe because it's not her style, but maybe because they have a will of their own. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Thank you, Jim (spoilers of all the book)
« on: October 12, 2015, 09:15:21 AM »
The only character I don't like is Ransom. The "evil ex-wife" it a tiresome plot and even when she tried to save Grimm, she fired over the other ships and the shipyard and she caused many, many deaths. So she really deserved something worse than what she got.
I'm not sure it's fair to call her evil.

She's just a mercenary.  Spire Albion isn't her home, and the docks are established as a valid war target. 

She doesn't do anything particularly reprehensible, she just takes part in a military operation for money. 

But yes, I agree with you about everything else.  The women in this book made me happy.

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: [TAW SPOILERS] Let's talk religion
« on: October 10, 2015, 08:41:05 PM »
Note also that this religion has a notion of a "hell".
While I suspect you're right, I'm not sure that we can say that conclusively at this point.

There's a lot of use of "hell" in the sense of "blow them to hell", but very little mention of it in a religious context.

There are two examples a quick search turns up that might be relevant.

The impression of the whole was that of rampant life, growing as wild as the deadly green hell covering the surface of the world
That's interesting (although not capitalised, unlike Heaven and the next example I've got).  That seems to be using hell in the colloquial "miserable place" sense, rather than the metaphysical.

There is also
“But there was screaming like souls in Hell from inside, and what looked like smoke from a fire.”
That's the only example I've found that's capitalised, and it is a place for souls.  However, I'm not sure we can definitely tie it specifically to the God Beyond (Although I suspect that it is).

Worth considering as well - Heaven is apparently a real place where something resides.  Hell quite possibly does too. 

Of course, given that the Enemy appears to be on the surface, and the surface is pretty hellish, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some overlap there. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Social Status of Warriorborn
« on: October 08, 2015, 12:41:26 PM »
Worth noting that there are some downsides to being warriorborn.

In Chapter 41 Cavendish says that you can't expect warriorborn to be perfectly poised - "Inevitably, the beast emerges".  And there's the way that Benedict reacts after his injuries - It's pretty clear that he's not in control and could be dangerous.

I don't think that it's particularly unreasonable to consider the potential for hurting the people around them a negative trait.  I can certainly see why you might not want to marry a warriorborn. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / [TAW SPOILERS] Let's talk religion
« on: October 07, 2015, 10:10:42 AM »
Hey all,

I've been through TAW twice at this point, and I thought I'd get down some of my thoughts on setting, because I'm loving it.  So, let's talk religion. 

There appear to be 2 major religious movements in the setting.  I'm going to start with God in Heaven.  This seems to be the primary religion.  It appears to be monotheistic and includes Archangels, which have been sighted in the real world by aeronauts.  These sightings are apparently credible, and (with other signs) indicate "dark times". 

Most interestingly, the Spires and their Builders seem to be part of it.  In Chapter 27, it's stated that the Builders laid out guidelines in the "High Manual".  These are treated as religious scripture - Habble Landing is remarked as "a place of disinclination to piety" for not following these rules, and for it's few small chapels to God in Heaven.  This is also evident from Lady Lancaster's prayer in the prologue ("God in Heaven, Archangels, merciful Builders, please"). 

We also know that the Enemy's goal is to draw out something that remains in Heaven.  This was part of the assault on the Wayist temple - Sending a message to draw "them" out.  Whether the message is the loss of life, the damage to the temple, or simply making it clear that the book has been stolen (and not just accidentally destroyed in the fire) is yet to be seen.  Although I'd lean towards the latter.

Finally, we know that the book contains names.  I have to assume, at this point, that Butcher is messing with us by using that specific word at the start of sentences.  "Names" or "names"?  Does it matter?  Anyway, names that are important in some sort of fight against Heaven or it's residents.  This could be the Builders, the Archangels, or God itself. 

There's also the Wayists.  We know a few things about them, although not as much.  They wear saffron robes, which is a fairly clear reference to Eastern religion (This is also evident in their philosophy).  I'm just going to quote wikipedia here

In Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism), the deep saffron color is associated with sacrifice, religious abstinence, quest for light and salvation. Saffron or "Bhagwa" is the most sacred color for the Hindus and is often worn by Sanyasis who have left their home in search of the ultimate truth.

Buddhist monks in the Theravada tradition typically wear saffron robes (although occasionally maroon—the color normally worn by Vajrayana Buddhist monks—is worn). (The tone of saffron typically worn by Theravada Buddhist monks is the lighter tone of saffron shown above.)

Throw in their focus on martial arts, and it appears that they're at least inspired by the idea of Shaolin monks. 

They also appear to have a reverence for books. 

Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: Duel with Reggie
« on: October 07, 2015, 09:39:46 AM »
I think it would be a great open to Book 2 to start with the duel. 

It'd be a fantastic opportunity to highlight character development, and would fit with the "seeing the mistmaw" talk at the end of the book - The cast has changed dramatically, but everyone else hasn't.  Reggie is still Reggie and she's still on the hook for the duel. 

Hopefully Jim will have Bridget just beat the hell out of him - She's not the same timid girl she was at the start.  She's beaten a man to death with her bare hands, carried a man out of a burning building, and wrestled with a cat in a airshipp battle. 

DFRPG / Re: Relations between Summer Court and Black Court
« on: March 02, 2013, 09:51:05 PM »
You had to spend fate points to get visions that coerced you into doing something neither you nor your character wanted to do?...
Your GM just utterly abused a power to railroad you into something you yourself said is a 180 from your character's personality, and then made you pay for it from your own Fate Points.

I'm starting to think you have a really bad GM.
Honestly have to agree.  It feels like your GM has a plan for where he wants to take the plot, and is going to push you into it. 

I'd be sceptical about this level of railroading in another RPG.  In FATE, it's pretty awful. 

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