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Messages - Taran

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2566
DFRPG / Re: Social Combat
« on: November 17, 2010, 04:59:40 PM »
The false face forward trapping is a defense, so you give the false aspect when you when succesfully defend against an empathy assessment in this way.

I don't think this particular trapping of deceit is very functional, but that's another matter.

Isn't it basic function of deceit? Lying.

So this leads to another question which I completely skipped over: damage.

So while you're using Rapport to gain info, are you also doing "damage"?  The consequences inflicted are just things you can tag while trying to get the info? "blinks when lying"

In the hag situation, since the Hag won, they were forced to concede and go looking elsewhere.  If they'd won, do you as GM, just pony up the information?

Hmmm...It seems I have a bazillion questions.  I'll wait before I ask more  :P

2567
DFRPG / Re: Social Combat
« on: November 17, 2010, 04:32:48 PM »
Just to go into nitty gritty, I want to use the above example where they question the hag:

Let's say we use Rapport to "chit, chat" and try to get information out of the Hag without her knowing exactly what we're asking.

Round 1: Rapport vs Deceit? or would it be Empathy to suss out what the PC's are trying to do?
    Do you need an empathy role to realize you're being questioned before you can use deceit to give false information?

    Assuming the hag knows, she uses deceit to throw the PC's off the trail

Round 2:  Use Empathy as an assessment to discover an aspect.  This is done as a maneuver, right?
               The Hag counters with her deceit.  
At what point does the hag set up the false aspect?  during her defense or when she uses deceit on her turn?

Also, how big a role does initiative play? Is there an advantage to  going first?

2568
DFRPG / Re: Social Combat
« on: November 12, 2010, 08:10:33 PM »

2) Opposed Rolls should only occur if there is an intersting outcome for *both* success and failure.  In the case of the example above, Failure was an interesting option ("You suspect that the cop is lying") since it adds something new to the story.  But success was boring ("Nope.  He's not lying.")  In that case, I'd either think of a more interesting outcome for success ("He didn't take the evidence, but he knows who did.") or I would skip the Empathy roll entirely.

In that particular situation, I rolled a +7 empathy roll.  The GM said, "you know what, you fail that role - here's a fate point -   I'm compelling your corrupt cop aspect.  You get that he's telling the truth, but he's insulted you're insinuating he's corrupt.  You just made an enemy on the force"

Technically, since I failed, he still could be guilty, but is using deceit.  So we could have broke it all down into a combat, but it didn't really matter in the end.  Could that same result have happened in a full-out combat?  At what point does the DM say, "here's a fate point - you lose" 

2569
DFRPG / Re: Social Combat
« on: November 12, 2010, 05:58:35 PM »
O.k,

I'm used to the classic D&D social combat:  "I use diplomacy" *roll dice*  "I got a 23!"
The dm sees that I beat the difficulty, judges by how much I beat it, then tries to figure out how much information to give to the player - which is hard sometimes...sometimes you don't want to give it ALL away.

This is generally what we've been doing.  Sometimes the GM doesn't even roll dice and uses the NPC's base skill as the difficulty.

My issue with this is there is so much more that could be done.  Is the guy giving me real information, or fake information?

I'm playing a "face"-type character who has high investigate, rapport and empathy so, obviously, I'm looking for more out of social combat, but the GM is worried that it'll take up too much game time.  Especially when I might be interviewing an NPC who knows nothing and is not important to the plot.
I see his point, but I like Red Herrings.  I don't always want to know if I've TRULY succeeded.

The other players' characters have social skills as well: presence, intimidate, rapport...it's just not as high as mine.

When do you go into full-out social combat and when do you just do a few rolls?
Do you need social combat to discover aspects or do you just need one roll and a couple of shifts?(as per the skill description)

So for example, a peice of evidence on a crime scene has gone missing.  I suspect the cop guarding the scene has been paid off and took the evidence.  I ask him if he found something and he says no...to Gm, "I use empathy to see if he's lying."
 *roll dice*
DM: no, he's not lying".

how much into detail should we go?

2570
DFRPG / Re: Character Concept: Micheal Landon, Highway to Heaven!
« on: November 01, 2010, 04:50:03 PM »
Presumably, she made that Empathy check before combat started.  Which is kind of using something you found out through an empathy assessment and then tag later in combat.

I guess my question was, how can you use social skills as maneuvers in combat, even if you've never seen your enemy before.

But I think I know what you're getting at:  In combat you can use Rapport or intimidate or empathy (although, I thought empathy was reserved for assessments) to goad, frazzle, tease etc... your opponent and "throw them off", which works as a maneuver. 

You could, for example, use deceit in combat to say, "hey bub your shoe's untied!" and when he looks down your buddy sucker-punches him.

Do I have it right?

2571
DFRPG / Re: Character Concept: Micheal Landon, Highway to Heaven!
« on: October 31, 2010, 02:59:56 AM »
So,

I updated the character with the suggestions people gave me.  I edited the original post with the changes, so that's the character as-is.  We start the campaign this week and am wondering if there's anything else I should do or change.

We have a:
- melee, sword weilding Emissary of the Fae - with some glamours, I think;
- A fist-fighting shapeshifting bear totem;
- A wizard

I feel like I spend a lot of refresh on minor abilities that might have been more useful in the shape of fate points or stunts.  I didn't set him up to be the main combat guy(obviously), but more the guy who deals with people and finds stuff out, which I think I accomplished...didn't I?

I tossed around the idea of taking a stunt to use contacts instead of resources (as the Gear  trapping).  So it'd be like calling in favors or borrowing stuff from people.  I didn't, in the end, because I didn't think it was worth the refresh.

Also, Wyvern mentionned using social skills for maneuvers in combat.  I understand how using contacts and investigation can be used ahead of time to make assessments for tags, but how do you use the other social skills for maneuvers?

Once again, I've never played this system so I have no idea if I'm completely missing something...

2572
DFRPG / Re: Character Concept: Micheal Landon, Highway to Heaven!
« on: September 17, 2010, 12:42:49 AM »
also remember that Cassandra's tears must be someway worked into an aspect.

I haven't figured out, thematically, how this will work, so I don't know how set up the aspect.  Whether it'll be another gift granted to from from his benefactor or a result of "crossing the threshold".

As I saw it, he'd be not only helping the down-trodden but maybe righting wrong he'd committed:  Ghosts of people he's murdered(directly or indirectly) who can't find rest; helping the families of people he's wronged.

Guide My Hand lets him find the people he needs to help and Cassandra's Tears gives him a clue of how he might need to help.

I'd use this stunt:

-1 Saw It Coming
Use Investigation for the Dodge trapping in Athletics.

I like this.  But can you use investigation in situation like that?  I thought it took time.

2573
DFRPG / Re: Character Concept: Micheal Landon, Highway to Heaven!
« on: September 17, 2010, 12:09:28 AM »


The other issue I see is a very simple question: "Why you?"  Either there's something cosmically important about your particular character (which would be left up to the eventual GM to determine), or - and I think this one's more likely - your character's initial "fall" was due to something else cheating, which would give the powers that be an opportunity to step in themselves (since they'd be acting to correct an imbalance, rather than directly infringing on free will).

I see it that I was recognized as having talents (good investigator, able to get a job done etc...) but they were being focused in the wrong direction.  When the character died, god stepped in and said, "I can prevent you from dying but only if you help me."  There was a choice - and the character always has the choice: to turn away and be damned, or to do good and be saved.  

As you say, it's ultimately up to the DM to figure out the reasoning.

2574
DFRPG / Character Concept: Micheal Landon, Highway to Heaven!
« on: September 16, 2010, 04:02:43 PM »
These posts are probably a dime a dozen, but I'm new to Dresden and the Fate system and need some advice on my character.  I'm a bit worried that he'll get owned in a combat.  Any advice would be great!

We're doing 8 refresh.

He's basically an Emissary of Power who goes around helping the "down-trodden".  I figured Micheal Landon was a bit too "goody-two-shoes" so my backstory adds a bit of grit (we'l call him Mike, for now):

Mike, a "Bad Cop on the take" gets betrayed and killed on duty.  As the demons of "Down Below" reach out to grab his soul, God steps in and gives him an ultimatum:  Repent, help me and you can save your soul from damnation.

Mike figures he has no choice, so he agrees to God's proposal.  He is brought back from the dead, Marked as an Emissary of God and goes around helping people...sometimes reluctantly.  He doesn't mind helping people most of the time but, in general, he feels that he's been forced into this job and doesn't really understand what it is to "repent".  He's really resentful of God even though God protects him etc...  He still has his cop instincts, most of his contacts (both Law and criminal - and now some ghostly ones) and he's still greedy and stuff, but his brush with death has left him more empathetic to peoples plights.

High Concept
Corrupt Cop turned Divine Detective

Trouble
Haunted by the Past

Other Aspects:

Cassandra's Tears:

Background
School of Hard Knocks or something that describes how he used his silver tongue to get by on the streets as a kid and as a corrupt cop
...opportunist manipulator??

Rising Conflict

A Big Fall and a Steady Crawl

First Adventure

Nose for trouble

Skills

Superb: Investigation
Great: Contacts, Conviction
Good: Empathy, Rapport
Fair: Guns, Drive, Presence
Average: Endurance, Stealth, Fists, Alertness, scholarship

Powers

Marked by Power -1
Cassandra's Tears -0
Wizard's constitution -0
Psychometry -1
Ghost Speaker -1
Guide my hand -1
Item of Power: righteousness, bless this house -1

Stunts:

Saw it coming -1 : Use investigation for dodge trapping in athletics

Total refresh left: 2

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