There's a few other things at work here. First of all, a shotgun or assault rifle is going to be at least weapon:2, so if we're still assuming 5 shifts against an unarmored target with only a stress track of 2, they're going to be taking a 7 stress hit, needing a Moderate and Mild consequence in order to bring down to something that fits in their stress track. Most civilians are going to want a concession at this point; this gets you the same effects, but it's a VASTLY more brutal way to go about business.

Against someone actually wearing armor, or having supernatural defenses, a taser is going to have trouble getting through. Against an actual spellcaster, it might not even work in the first place.

... how many average people -- not well built, buff, or having gone through conditioning -- do you know that don't drop to the ground in a heap when tazed?

Exactly. Makes a great way to punctuate a scene dramatically for someone who's just dealt with some minor (or major) scuffle, too.

So, the beast was down. I still didn't really know what it was, but I was standing and it wasn't. Good enough for me. I turned to leave, and a scared cop -- some rookie, or maybe she's just one of those girls that never seems to age -- had something leveled at my chest.

Crap. A taser. Can my life get any more awesome? I raise my hand and open my mouth, but I don't even really remember what I was going to say. Y'see, that's when she jerked and pulled the trigger.

Yeah. Down I went.

Personally, I'd call it weapon:0, MAAAAYBE weapon:1, but you can't take consequences beyond Mild. If you'd need to and cannot, you're taken out instead.

This might seem severe, but anyone packing a taser isn't intending to kill, and they've only got one shot ready for most models.

The issue of Martial Arts was raised on 20 April. In both cases, it was Iago that responded. So let's see how much longer it will take them to make changes to Martial Arts, if at all.

What you're going to need is a breakdown of how Martial Arts falls short. So far, the only issues that have been cogently raised are the core stunt (which was addressed by Fred), and Killer Blow.

If there's something else, or you don't feel Fred's answer is insufficient, we need to know what and why.

Here's my attempt at elaborating on the case of the core stunt.

'Martial Arts' isn't necessarily just mean eastern Asian fighting styles; that's just a generalization like so much in the system.

Comparing the Fists 3 + MA character to the Fists 5 character, you're looking at a combination of training and skill versus simple raw output potential. Since we don't have a complicated stat system as a basis, we don't have things like a strength stat as a backer for melee attacks. Our analog is just raising the skill higher on the column.

The advantage that the MA tree has over the Weapons tree, is that your fists can't be taken away from you. You can't be disarmed without being dis-armed (pun for effect). This inherently makes it a more generalized set of stunts. Just think for a moment about the Dresden books, and how often Harry has something taken away from him mid-fight. Someone with more unarmed potential doesn't need to stop and get their gear back; in their portion of the narrative, they are always ready to go.


Personally, I'm inclined to agree from my vague recollections that Killer Blow is possibly too weak for the total costs and the raw situational nature of it. What else in the MA tree suffers from this, or is this the only real egregious example, and everything else is kind of on the line?

That sounds PERFECT. It gives room for someone to make something that massive if it makes sense for character concept... and they'll probably have an Aspect tied to it for plot hookiness.

Thanks, Fred! <3

... Chadu, your post is the best post on cold iron I've randomly stumbled across in forever. I'm going to be borrowing your logic for a long time to come.