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Messages - vultur

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DF Spoilers / Re: Great Jim interview from December 2020
« on: June 24, 2021, 05:29:32 AM »
She spent a lot of time recovering him from death. She is not going to waste that investment on something that is clearly not in his weight class.

Absolutely... but Lara's not out of Harry's weight class, except politically as a sort-of head of state. She's not actually that powerful personally as shown in Turn Coat, it's who she can order around.

Feeding is an attack and you donít attack your allies.

That would make a lot of sense... I am not sure it is quite so clear cut that White Court feeding is always an attack though... in the vast majority of cases absolutely yes... but see Thomas at the hair salon or Bigfoot on Campus...

There seem to be degrees of White Court influence too. In BR Harry has True Love protection but he is still affected by Lara's supernatural presence. So there may be the possibility of mental influence without feeding.

Lara is not an outsider.

True - but is the Starborn mind-resistance necessarily limited to outsiders alone?

DF Spoilers / Total WAG: Cowl's Real Plan
« on: June 24, 2021, 04:28:26 AM »
[inspired by the Darkhallow Cowl vs Ethniu thread]

In GP, Cowl gave Nemesis to Lea, weakening Winter at a critical time.

In DB, Cowl never intended to successfully complete a Darkhallow - DB turned out pretty much exactly as Cowl intended. That's why he was able to escape the collapsing Darkhallow; he'd planned it out ahead of time.

The result? The White Council was very severely weakened, but the Red Court also overextended itself, expecting Edinburgh to fall ... setting things up for Changes.

WN also went mostly as Cowl intended -- that plan seems precisely designed to get Harry to stop it. Harry's chivalrous streak is pretty well known, as is his working outside the Council's traditional scope and with mortal authorities; if they really intended a plan based on attacking non-Council-member magical women to succeed, Chicago would be the absolute last place on the planet to try it.

But at the very end, Harry did something Cowl didn't plan for - working with Lara to get out. I think he probably expected Harry to escape through the NN. Lara wasn't meant to survive - the White Court leadership was intended to be totally destroyed, ending it as a relevant political force. (Instead, it's actually probably stronger in practice since now united under Lara).

Cowl's long-term goal is to weaken all the existing supernatural power structures, break the Accords, call in the Outsiders - and then betray them. Per WOJ, the highest levels of magic can rewrite reality. With the Outsiders weakening the fabric of reality, Cowl will do that: end death, give himself godlike powers, and then kick the Outsiders back Outside.

IMO Cowl has very intentionally not killed Harry. To Cowl, Harry is kind of an "ace in the hole" to ensure that the "betray the Outsiders" part of the plan doesn't go wrong - without ever being consciously helping Cowl, he'll fight to get the Outsiders out of reality.

Given how strongly "exponential" the high levels of power in the Dresdenverse seem to be, I doubt the Darkhallow would have given Ethniu-level power.

The power of the Darkhallow would have been that of the Erlking + a whole lot of mortal spirits and ghosts. The Erlking is distinctly weaker than Mab, though in some sense a "peer". I can see all the extra energy boosting Cowl to slightly stronger than Mab, but not vastly beyond.

Under such conditions is what I am looking at as well as comparing, as best I can guess, their respective baseline magical might.

Yeah. And the original "who could beat Mab in a fight" WOJ was specifically just her, outside Faerie, no Winter army.

The line about how in the light of the Swords of the Cross that Ethniu's armour made her looks stiff and slow seemed to suggest it limited her in some way.

I think that probably had to do with the "removing supernatural advantages/leveling the playing field" effect of the Swords - in reality, armor is limiting, so in the presence of the "fully active" Swords, Ethniu's was. I'm not sure it would have any limiting effect otherwise.

Because I have wondered why reality didn't just shatter altogether when she showed up. We know Ferrovax helped with that by going to the Nevernever to keep the door closed, but that doesn't account for her very first appearance.

I think it's because in her first appearance she didn't use any really dramatic worldshaking power - she punched Mab through walls, but Mab was also present in a diminished non-reality-breaking form.

I am entirely unsure of why the Walkers appear so weak yet Jim classed them at Uriel's level.
Yes, this is strange. I tend to interpret this as a matter of total potential vs. ability to effectively apply power - if Uriel is confronting a Walker outside any particular "reality" they're on par, but if a Walker is in "reality" it's limited by its rules -- and possibly what Harry encounters is not the Walker's full being but just whatever can 'slip through the cracks' into "reality".

DF Spoilers / Re: Great Jim interview from December 2020
« on: June 24, 2021, 03:41:07 AM »
I don't think he even knew what a star born was let alone that he was one.

Yeah, exactly. His status still seems to have had some effect vs HWWBehind, but I think it was in some way "awakened" by the events of Changes/Ghost Story and what he learned, so that by CD he can resist HWWBefore's mental attack, strike back, and get its Name (whereas he needed Lash's help to partially resist a similar attack in WN).

EDIT: typo, Behind/Before

DF Spoilers / Re: Uriels previous wars?
« on: June 24, 2021, 03:38:00 AM »
I think Uriel was referring to the War in Heaven/vs the Fallen primarily, but I'm sure he's worked against Outsiders too.

DF Spoilers / Re: Marcone could probably beat Harry in a duel.
« on: June 24, 2021, 12:28:44 AM »
Harry used to be "just a thug" in magical combat; I think that's not quite so true since about Changes - see the falling rocks Way trick in the Erlking's Hall fight, and Lea's compliment on mixing fire and ice. In the final fight with Ascher/Lasciel in SG, she was putting out more raw power due to Hellfire, but Harry won by redirecting that power.

DF Spoilers / Re: How hard did Ebenezar try to kill Lord Raith?
« on: June 24, 2021, 12:13:05 AM »
Why would they need drones and hellfire missiles? The Librarians wouldn't need that against any lone wizard Kincaid may be the best but there are dozens of Special Forces snipers that could make the shot that took out Harry.

Eb's protections are likely much better than Harry's; IIRC his robes have an effect like Harry's duster, but protecting his whole body, not just what the enchanted fabric covers. (And that sniper rifle would not have killed Harry if he'd had his duster on...)

Going after Eb in his home, I doubt drones would be enough. That farm's probably got wards against pretty much every possible form of attack.

Plus as Harry as said throughout the books, the Supernatural World needs secrecy because while mortals are weak individually, they outnumber the monsters by a huge factor.

That's true for most of the mortal-world-inhabiting factions, such as the Council and Vampire Courts. It's not quite universal, though...

Without the Eye, Ethniu would have been the only survivor if they were out in the open when the helicopter squadron showed up.

Not really, there were Immortals around, missiles won't kill them. And I'd expect top end wizard shields - eg Senior Council or really experienced Wardens - to block anything below nuclear level, given what Harry's shield has withstood when "powered up" (eg explosions at end of WN, Lily's metal-melting fire wave in CD). River Shoulders probably has equal or better power level, in a different way (diffusing the energy?) Etc.

DF Spoilers / Re: What does this mean?
« on: June 24, 2021, 12:02:09 AM »
It easily could, especially as Lord Raith's protection is described in similar terms - if the Outsiders gave him a shield, they might have left a "backdoor" for their own power.

But I'm not sure the dark energy would even have needed to get around the protection directly, just give Harry the power he'd need to do it indirectly.

Harry saw with the keys that Lord Raith isn't immune to magically-caused physical harm, so being telekinetically bashed enough would eventually run him out of healing energy and kill him.

DF Spoilers / Re: Great Jim interview from December 2020
« on: June 23, 2021, 11:45:53 PM »
It would make Harry less effective so no. I think Mab is pretty transparant about what she wants from Molly and Harry both.

Mab also seems to believe that if Harry can't measure up to her standards, then he wasn't worth it anyway, though.

Lara is clearly prohibited from killing Harry by feeding, but I am not sure "influence" is off limits - Mab probably expects Harry to be able to deal with that.

Mab would not want to lose control of Harry, but if Lara has obligations to Mab...

Although, given Starborn "mind control resistance" can Lara enthrall him? Mab could mess with his memories in SmF, but his Starborn powers don't seem to have been "fully awakened" then.

DF Spoilers / Re: Great Jim interview from December 2020
« on: June 23, 2021, 11:40:44 PM »
Lash and Lasciel are not illusions. They certainly present themselves as female. They probably self identify as female even without a body.

Dresdenverse angels seem to be loosely on the Catholic model which as I understand it (and I am not a theologian) do not really have gender as we would define it.

I am not sure how much of what we see of them is "put on" to interact with humans vs inherent.

Lash (vs Lasciel) is a slightly different case as she is not a true angel but an imprint/shadow in Dresden's brain so probably is more "human-influenced". Lash probably is female but I am not so sure about Lasciel proper.

Harry could certainly try to summon HWWBehind. Mortals can summon Outsiders, and Harry's summoned beings of extreme cosmic power level before (Mother Winter in CD, and Uriel in Changes - the latter without even a physical circle).

However, Harry may not have all its names; he might not be able to compel it to arrive if it resisted. (Harry had a "right" to summon MW as Winter Knight, and Uriel wanted to show up.)

DF Spoilers / Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« on: March 13, 2021, 04:55:45 AM »
Jim did say he's a master at planning... Also he's a risk taker for sure.  Willing to become part mortal was a big risk.  So his plan may have blown up in his face, but I think weighed the odds, and went for it.

Yeah, foresight is kind of Odin's thing. DF has lots of other cosmologies involved, and fate isn't as strong as it is in Norse myth, but I don't think it was just luck either.

DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab Nemfected? Is Mother Winter? Something else?
« on: March 13, 2021, 04:51:09 AM »
If either were Nemfected, I think the universe would have been eaten by Outsiders already.

I think the Mothers are probably too powerful to be Nemfected, just as archangels are (I don't think the Mothers are quite on that scale -- but I think Nemesis is rather more limited than is generally speculated, including speculation by Harry and others in the books).

Mab dying either to start the BAT, or as part of it, possibly due to some kind of oath-related issue, seems extremely likely and foreshadowed, yes. But I don't think that makes her Nemfected. (I think if Nemesis freed her from her oaths, the way it let Maeve lie, then that wouldn't have fatal implications anymore.)

DF Spoilers / Re: Can't wait to see what they got!
« on: March 13, 2021, 04:46:05 AM »
He's an expert healer, and he was able to use the "old ways" against Shagnasty. 

He actually wasn't - Shagnasty points out he can't, and LtW replies "Not going to bind or banish you, old ghost. Just going to kick your ass up between your ears."

LtW beats him with shapechanging combat, not by exorcising him. LtW is from a Great Lakes-area Native American group; he's not Dine/Navajo (the culture naagloshii come from).

I know Jim stated that a Black Court vamp could rip through a lot of White Court vamps, but I'm wondering where Raith himself would have stood.

Well, Thomas could briefly fight a weak Black Court vampire, but took a lot of harm doing it. Lord Raith was presumably stronger.

And Thomas compares Drulinda's physical abilities to Lord Raith's old ones in It's My Birthday Too... Drulinda is a new, and likely relatively weak, Black Court master vampire.

So probably mid-range among Blampires?

But the series has scaled up in power a lot since BR.

I don't think he would have fared much better in TC than Lara did -- sure, he was stronger than she is, but not in ways that would have been any use against a naagloshii or the force bubble Eb trapped Lara in.

Throw in magical immunity that not even the Blackstaff can get through

This part I still don't get - Harry could injure him with keys propelled by earth magic - surely Eb could use something similar?

Perhaps the real limit was that Eb could only try subtle things for political reasons - if his immunity didn't block Harry's keys, it wouldn't block a satellite or asteroid dropped by Eb.

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