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Messages - LostInTime

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16
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: November 07, 2022, 11:57:48 PM »
Sorry if this rambles a bit.

I've been pondering Battle Ground and Peace Talks.

When Molly launches into the explanation of why she can't step outside the circle in PT, it's also a clue for later on. Her mantle is more invasive than Harry's. Shedding her mantle the wrong way would damage her. And Harry's can inflict pain if he goes against Mab's word. Which probably means that Molly can't go against Mab's word. But as we see in The Good People, she can do as she pleases provided she doesn't.

She has some free will, but nowhere near what she had as a mortal. But, there's no way Uriel would stand for a total loss of free will or the loss of an immortal soul. So, we can assume that she's still mortal, but under a geas and a glamor. Jim has said that the mantle is changing the bearer's DNA, but that could be explained by Molly and Sarissa looking like twins now.

So, she's got to behave as a fae would, equalizing scales, hoarding knowledge, vulnerable to iron.

She also appears more fae when she's leaning into the mantle, like when she was coordinating communication for the fae and addressed Harry as Mab would, with eyes and ears totally fae. Was that because her mortal mind was occupied and left the mantle to answer Harry? Because, coming from a tripartite entity like Hecate, you have to assume three or all six queens have some sort of hive mind, at some level.

The final point I want to bring up is during the limo ride to the Carpenter's house, Molly leans into Harry's hand and tells him, "You're my knight too, Harry." I don't think that was the Winter Lady speaking. She made sure that they were isolated with no outside observers. And the Winter Lady has never given the knight an order. In fact, everything we've seen about Winter Law argues against it. Winter Law is whatever Mab says it is. Never Molly, Maeve or even Mother.

17
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 22, 2022, 02:08:14 AM »
  Here is a wild thought, Mab or any other Fae will look you in the eye and tell you they cannot lie.  Now that may be true, in which case bargaining with them shouldn't be all that dangerous, but it is.
Of course that includes Molly now.

So why is that?  This is a wild theory that came to me while I was watching a special about King Tut..
Don't ask me why. ??? But here it is, when you are bargaining with a Fae, it is like looking in a mirror.  We see our reflection, we think we are seeing truth, but the image is backwards..  So the Fae might indeed be telling the truth, but we lie to ourselvesas we hear it, or in another words it amounts to a lot of wishful thinking.  That's why it is so dangerous to bargain with the Fae...
This is oddly close to what Harry warned Maeve about. Once you can lie, you start lying to yourself.

18
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 19, 2022, 07:21:42 PM »

I offer a WAG:
In this quote, Mab isn't saying "I will never lie."
She is saying, "I'm not lying... yet.  But I will... after the Stars fall from the sky."
I'll go you one better. We know WHEN Mab will lie. The last book is called Empty Night. A sky without stars.

19
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 16, 2022, 12:43:37 AM »
When a Fae makes a promise in a bargain, he or she binds himself or herself to the promise.  As we saw in Summer Knight, Harry had bound himself to Lea for three promises in exchange for whatever she gave him to fight Justine.. However Mab was able to take over that contract, then promises were then moved to her.  In the case of Ethinu, Harry needed blood and had to say the right words to bind her, but she wasn't bound to Harry, she was bound to the prison.
Harry bound Ethniu. He beat her will to resist the binding. Not Demonreach. The prison is just where she is bound.

The Lady, Queen, and Mother mantles were already bound to behave under equal exchange. Harry did a favor for Winter, who were defending Chicago under their Accords, which the Fomor were attacking. Winter was obligated to return the favor. Harry demanded payment, they had no choice but to grant the favor or suffer the consequences, which we don't know what they would be. But, they would have to be serious.

When Mab acquired Harry's favor to Lea, we don't know how. Did Mab demand them as service from her vassal? Was it the price Mab extracted to cure Lea of Nemfection? Or did Mab trade a favor to Lea in exchange for Harry's favor? While Lea was incapacitated by being cured, Mab acted to fulfill her vassal's obligations. Just as when Harry was mostly dead Mab acted to fulfill his obligation to train Molly, transferring that obligation to Lea, who was already bound to fulfill Harry's obligation to train Molly as his Godmother.

Harry himself has a ton of obligations. And not just favors owed to others. He is owed favors and tends to forget them or brush them off. I'll be watching to see if he doesn't start taking those favors owed more seriously as the mantle takes hold.

20
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 13, 2022, 09:01:22 AM »
He bound her as a fae is bound by equal exchange.

Just like he later bound all of the supernatural nations present under guest rite.

It's a different type since it required no battle of wills, but it's just as binding, within its limitations. We've never seen what happens to a fae that fails to fulfill a contract, but as we've seen with Harry in PT, there's a real, physical consequence. Molly described a unfulfilled contract owed her as an itch that she can't scratch.

21
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 11, 2022, 07:10:23 PM »


Harry didn't "bind" Lady Molly to pay; that came as a surprise to him.
Go back and read Battle Ground, the part where Molly is walking around in a fireman's coat after the battle. Molly even said that Harry has bound a queen right after he makes the demand.

22
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 10, 2022, 10:18:31 AM »
But, there was still a favor given for a favor granted. Equal exchange. The price the Warden extracted was very steep, monetarily. But, even with all of the supernatural heavy hitters gathered in Chicago, the Warden was the only one that could bind and imprison Ethniu. Now she's a resource he could use. Harry effectively got paid twice for doing the same job. Plus, he holds the eye. A completely unequal bargain, but by fae rules and equal exchange.

23
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 08, 2022, 11:13:47 PM »
They are vulnerable to mortal workings. That's the reason iron and steel are extra-fatal to them. Even so far as paralyzing them when immortal fae are penetrated by it. Way back in Death Masks (?) Harry dumped reality powder of Lea, which was mostly made of depleted uranium powder, and it burned the crap out of her.

The reason why Molly can use high tech is that the mantle has either suspended her mortal magic, transformed it into fae magic, or somehow overriden her Murphyonic field. There is precedent. Harry and Molly used to sit inside a circle to have their magic contained if they wanted to watch a movie with their friends or family. Perhaps the mantle does the same thing, traps her magic inside her body somehow and applies a skin of the mantle's magic over her.

Equal exchange is part of balancing the scales. E.G. Butters removing the rebar from Mab's neck during the Battle of Chicago. He was not bound to do so by contract or treaty. Once she was back on her feet she offered him a favor to balance their scales. Even when Harry, as the Warden of Demonreach, bound Ethniu, he was then able to bind Lady Molly to pay for all the medical aid and funeral for Chicago. Because the Warden is not bound to Winter or a signatory of the Accords. By binding Ethniu, he put Winter in his debt. Ethniu was Winter and Accorded nation's enemy. Winter had to balance the scales with the Warden.

Mab passing through Harry's threshold was a matter of guest rite. Since she was not offering him any harm, she was behaving within guest rite and allowed to enter without permission. Though, as we saw in The Law from Harry's perspective, most of her power was probably left outside.

The Svartalves made Harry's upgraded ring in his workshop. Which was copper, silver and iron, combined into one ring. He had to pay a premium for them to work with iron. I thought he'd lost it in Changes, but it was still there in PT. But, per WOJ, not everything native to the Never Never is vulnerable to iron. (At least not vulnerable beyond the usual, like being cut by a steel sword)

24
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 08, 2022, 03:05:18 PM »
The fae can also tell the truth from a certain point of view. Mab could say that Hitler was a great hero. Despite the commonly held point of view that he was a monster. To an ardent Nazi he was a hero. Truth from a certain point of view.

Fae restrictions in general are, guest rite, tell the truth, equal exchange, iron vulnerability (really a vulnerability to mortal workings), bargains, oaths or exchanges, asking three times is a binding, summoning rituals (binding if you know the fae's true name).

Winter Law seems to (so far) be restricted to not killing mortals uninvolved with the fae, and accepting an enemy's surrender. In return for good treatment that enemy must act as your vassal until they are ransomed back to their lord.

25
DF Spoilers / Re: Winter Lady Restrictions
« on: October 06, 2022, 03:35:48 AM »
The obligation against lying is Winter Law not particular to the Mantle, so Nemesis suborned Winter Law, breaking the restrictions of the Mantle would have meant Maeve becoming a undifferentiated lump of protoplasm. The same happened with the Mantleless Lea.

This fits in with my theory that Nameless became subject to Winter Law solely in order to destroy it, (he is a Demi-god of Discord, and a crooked Lawyer) his aiding Nemesis just one of the aspects of his attack. Without Winter Law then Winter would lose its coordination, massively undermining the defence of the Gates. Oh and Nameless is Cowl of course.
Slight correction. The prohibition against lying, or, more correctly, the requirement to tell the truth at all times is a fae requirement. Like the vulnerability to cold iron, all fae have this. Not just those under Winter Law or those that are part of Accorded nations.

26
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon con videos?
« on: October 06, 2022, 03:29:12 AM »
WOJ from DragonCon 2021 was that we'll see Chandler again in Mirror Mirror.

27
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly's cellphone ...
« on: July 25, 2022, 11:06:40 PM »
It's a mortal cell phone. In SG she walks away and Harry sees her use it. In PT he summons her and she's using a cell phone that the mortal summoning magic lets the magic smoke out of.

Molly also thinks she can leave the circle, but when she presses a finger to it, the fingertip deforms like she's pressing it against glass.

28
DF Spoilers / Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« on: June 06, 2022, 10:36:21 AM »
Jim has said no more surprise kids of Harry. But the expectation of this marriage is a planned child. So, is Harry going to have a Whamp child? And how much more will it break Eb's heart to have a whamp grandchild and a whamp great-grandchild?

29
DF Spoilers / Re: Battle Ground foreshadowing
« on: January 26, 2022, 03:10:46 PM »
Mab's instruction to Harry was to "Kill Molly Carpenter". Not, kill lady Molly. Or kill the Winter Lady.
Names, offices and mantles are incredibly important to the fae. Mab summoned Kringle, not Vadderung. Same person, two different names and offices. Harry bound Molly because the Warden of Demonreach did a favor for Winter, by enforcing the Accords and binding Ethniu. Winter was obligated to repay the favor and he called upon them to pay for the funerals and medical bills.
Harry Dresden, The Za Lord, The Wizard of Chicago, or the Winter Knight could not have bound Ethniu. Only the Warden of Demonreach could have bound her.
Name and mantles, kid. That's how they get you.

30
DF Spoilers / Re: Who is Thomas talking to?
« on: January 15, 2022, 09:45:38 PM »
Whichever. I'm sure it won't have any strong implications on Thomas' eventual fate.  ::)

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