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Messages - Talby16

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316
DF Spoilers / Re: Favorite theory that they could discuss all night long.
« on: October 24, 2017, 04:14:41 PM »
I could discuss any theory all night long or at least nod in the right places while the majority of the discussion happens over my head. I am partial to the "Mac=Angel" theory and the "Warden of Demonreach being a mantle that Harry has not fully explored yet" theory.

317
DF Books / Re: A thought...possible spoiler, but I don't think so.
« on: October 24, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »
Unless he is the source of Gard's rune based magic?
Are you suggesting that Gard's power springs directly from Odin and not the universe like wizard's magic? To my knowledge we have not seen that in the books, but it can't be discounted. Especially if Mr. Butcher chooses to incorporate things like the Odinforce into the Dresden Universe. Maybe Gard's rune magic flows from the Odinforce.

318
DF Spoilers / Re: How would a new mantle be created
« on: October 23, 2017, 09:25:21 PM »
In my opinion a mantle must have 5 things (but I reserve the right to add more if they occur to me):
1. Power
2. Purpose
3. Limitations
4. Belief
4. Recognition

Now these five things are separate, but tied to one another and can cover some of the same areas. First comes power. A mantle must be invested with power, otherwise it is just a name. Power must be invested to create it (ie WoJ about the Erlking creating a knight from his power) and must remain with the mantle. The power does not have give the mantle holder a big boost in physical power like the winter knight mantle. It can be in the form of knowledge or responsibilities.

Number 2, mantles must have a purpose. Even if that purpose is to act as the mantle creators proxy. The purpose can be anything the mantle creator desires, but it should be defined and if disobeyed their should be consequences (Slate as Winter Knight).

Number 3, mantles must be created with a specific limitations in mind and should be revoked if necessary. That links the mantle to the one who created it and prevents the mantle holder from using the power indiscriminately. For instance, Harry can do his own things with the winter knight mantle, but he loses it if he crosses Mab or Winter Law (as seen in Cold Days). Harry also loses the mantle if he is pierced by iron. This should also theoretically keep the mantle holder from turning on the mantle creator.

Number 4, a mantle should be believed. My personal WAG states that mantles are somewhat powered by belief. That helps power the ongoing mantle for its daily actions. For instance, most people believe the Winter Knight to be Mabs enforcer, thug, assassin, etc. If Harry is acting in accordance with that he remains empowered. If he acts completely contrary to that his power is diminished. Belief by people aware of the mantle and the mantle holder can slowly change the mantle. This is Harry's hope for himself with the Winter Knight Mantle.

Finally, number 5, recognition. The mantle must be recognizable as a mantle and as belonging to a certain faction or person. The winter knight is recognized as a part of winter and must act in accordance with winter. If the Erlking created a mantle it would be associated with him and his interests and would lose power if it diverged.

As a final note, I use all of these to support my opinion that The Warden of Demonreach is a mantle held by Harry.

319
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry is most like (Favourite DC superhero)?
« on: October 23, 2017, 08:40:33 PM »
I went with Dresden as Green Lantern. My reasoning: Number 1, will is what powers a green lantern. We have seen Harry use his will in numerous situations both mental (with Lash and with the outsider in Cold Days) and physical (facing down Mother Winter and her mental bonds in Cold Days). Number 2,  lanterns use their will to create constructs to fight with. Kind of like what Harry does with soul fire. Furthermore, Harry uses a number of physical constructs that he pours his magic (directed by his will) into. Number 3, Green Lanterns police a sector of space. Harry initially starts out just "policing" Chicago, but he has transitioned to much more. First a region of America as a Warden Commander. Then all of America via the Paranet. Followed by being The Warden of Demonreach responsible for the big bads drawn from all over. Now he the Knight of Winter which covers almost half of the Fae (in addition to his White Council duties). He has moved beyond being the "Batman" of Chicago (a role I would actually give to Butters pre-KotC). He is responsible for a huge "sector of space" a la Green Lantern.

To further my analogy I add number 4: Whoever the Green Lantern is (Jordan, Stewart, Raynor), he belongs to an organization tasked with maintaining order. Each lantern draws power from a similar place and uses their will to shape it according to the situation they find themselves in. The power comes from a similar place, but it expresses itself in different ways according to each individual lantern. Now reread that paragraph and substitute wizard for lantern. Pretty close resemblance in my opinion.

320
DF Reference Collection / Re: Mab/Murphy Ironies
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:56:27 PM »
I see Mirror Mirror as an opportunity for Harry to get a broader understanding of the role he has played in people's lives, possible secret knowledge that is relevant to his world, and maybe an ace-in-the-hole object of power. Wizards hoard their secrets like dragons hoard their gold.

I'v always liked the idea of knowledge being power in the Dresden Universe. It brings to mind a WoJ that deals with the White Council members holding back what they can really do in case it ever came to a fight and another one that deals with wizards not telling Harry certain things or correcting his misunderstandings of magic because some things should be learned and being leery of giving Harry that "power."

321
DF Spoilers / Re: Deadline end of year
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:52:44 PM »
I don't know.  Shard never got back to me, but they use a PayPal add-on on their site for donations.  With it only being ~$100/year, we should be able to raise it pretty quickly. 

I'm tempted to wait until next summer to have a fundraiser around the time the new books come out.  We could then let the money sit in the PayPal account until the site fees need to be renewed each year.

If 300 regular and new users donated a dollar around that time, we'd have three years of funding, minus a reimbursement for the initial year. If we didn't raise much, then we might have to go the Patreon route, with folks donating yearly.

But I'd rather ride the wave of book release interest to hit more people up for smaller amounts. $1 for a year or more of site hosting seems fair.

I like the idea of riding the wave of interest a new book will bring. That interest would also serve to attract both new users and those who have become dormant over time. Hopefully leading to more money raised and more membership transfer to the new site.

Definitely more loosened up. This place is a bit upright in the typical american way (hard lines of out of bounds things that a normal adult should be more than capable of talking about).

Also, you guys with no tech background keep talking about spending money and setting up sites. Perhaps wait a bit more for a group decision based on researched choices. There are sites where, if you get served ads, will be free and will be professionally maintained (security updates, maintenance, t.ex) if no one with technical skills wants to be responsible and, even if they do, it may still be the best choice.

I would rather chip in some money (with enough people shouldn't be more than the price of a coffee) and be ad free and have a better user experience. I agree with groinkick that with ads the risk of spam and viruses increase exponentially. Plus ads might turn new users away.

322
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry is most like (Favourite DC superhero)?
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:44:33 PM »

Oh come on. Green Lanterns skill set is too limited. It's all just imaginary images enforce by willpower. Admittedly Harry uses his willpower and emotions to empower his powers, but he has a hell of a lot of range across a different spectrum than Green Lantern. Notably in that Green isn't his only colour. He also has you know... magic. Plus Green Lantern doesn't have a city to protect and be Guardian over.

I went with Dresden as Green Lantern. My reasoning: Number 1, will is what powers a green lantern. We have seen Harry use his will in numerous situations both mental (with Lash and with the outsider in Cold Days) and physical (facing down Mother Winter and her mental bonds in Cold Days). Number 2,  lanterns use their will to create constructs to fight with. Kind of like what Harry does with soul fire. Furthermore, Harry uses a number of physical constructs that he pours his magic (directed by his will) into. Number 3, Green Lanterns police a sector of space. Harry initially starts out just "policing" Chicago, but he has transitioned to much more. First a region of America as a Warden Commander. Then all of America via the Paranet. Followed by being The Warden of Demonreach responsible for the big bads drawn from all over. Now he the Knight of Winter which covers almost half of the Fae (in addition to his White Council duties). He has moved beyond being the "Batman" of Chicago (a role I would actually give to Butters pre-KotC). He is responsible for a huge "sector of space" a la Green Lantern.

323
DF Reference Collection / Re: Mab/Murphy Ironies
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:31:18 PM »
Thanks for the reply. I was certain you would have an explanation for that particular WoJ. As you say, the Maeve/Sarissa part is easy to explain. If Murphy goes back in time and becomes Mab she will have plenty of time to have twins. Surprisingly, for me, I have an easier time accepting explanation number 4 for the Mab/Titania twin issue than the other ones, even though that is on the surface the most complex/unlikely. Number 1 would be a cop out in my opinion. For number 2, I do not think familial relationships are inherent to the mantles. I also have trouble believing that we have had no hint of a twin sister for Murphy through 15 books. That leaves number 4, however unlikely it appears on the surface.

I've often wondered about the purpose of the Mirror Mirror books. Presumably, it will be set almost entirely in the alternate reality. If that is the case, what will Harry gain from it to further his progression/journey. If he gains nothing and all his actions/consequences are contained in the alterante reality, then MM is nothing but a placeholder book. A fun look at the alternate fates of the characters I'm sure, but nothing that will help Harry win/survive in the BAT. I'm guessing he at least comes away from MM with some new insight or knowledge about the Outsiders and/or Black Council that he can apply in his reality. However, it is fun to speculate about the characters he will encounter and the potential for crossover.

For example, what if the MM Murphy decides to transfer out of Special Investigations. She is never exposed to the horror of the spooky world (but knows it still exists) and maybe ends up in a happier headspace. Her sense of duty rear its head when our Harry comes calling and she will accompany him and our Murphy back to the past where her different circumstances make her ideal to join Summer. Our Murphy, having been through the meat grinder, is more suited to join Winter and do what must be done.

Just one possibility, but if your theory is true, I like the opportunities explanation number 4 opens up.

324
DF Reference Collection / Re: Mab/Murphy Ironies
« on: October 23, 2017, 04:06:31 AM »
@raidem, I'm sure you have already considered this and posted about this somewhere else so forgive me, but how do you reconcile this WOJ with your Mab/Murphy theory?

2014 AMA
Can we get a break down of the biological relationships between the various Fae Queens we have seen on screen? Of particular interest - Maeve and Sarissa, were they actually Mab's kids (biological sense)? If so, who was Mab's baby daddy?

Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.
Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.

325
DF Books / Re: SPOILER WARNING; Question and possible missed oppertunity
« on: October 19, 2017, 08:38:39 PM »
Not if they wanted to keep their "appendage" intact.

326
DF Books / Re: A thought...possible spoiler, but I don't think so.
« on: October 19, 2017, 08:38:01 PM »
Anything is possible until it has been disproven in story or WOJ, but I doubt this. As Rasins said, it seems like too much job for one man. In addition, Rashid presumably uses magic with a similar basis as Eb and Harry (with a different focus of course) while Odin most likely uses a rune based magic. I know that practitioners can learn different types of magic, but I doubt Odin would take the time.

327
DF Spoilers / Re: A new mantle
« on: October 19, 2017, 06:58:43 PM »
Would the mantle of Warden be a new one?

Do mantles HAVE to be populated?  Or are there mantles that are empty, waiting for someone to take them up?

Maybe "Gatekeeper" and "Warden" are more than just titles. Maybe they are mantles and Harry has not explored his fully yet. We know Harry's role as Warden comes with new responsibilities, just like a mantle. We know he has new abilities (with relation to Demonreach and prisoner release), just like a mantle. We know he has increased knowledge from his role with regards to his sphere of responsibility (eg intellectus). If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

I would think that whether or not mantles have to be populated depends on how they were created. For example, the Ladies and Knights (and presumably the queens and mothers) are designed to seek out a new host when the current mantle occupant dies. It would make sense that other mantles lie empty or dormant until the right set of conditions are met to fill the mantle. If "Warden" is a mantle then it would fall into this category. The mantle was empty until the right person came along and performed the Sanctum Invocation.

328
DF Spoilers / Re: A new mantle
« on: October 19, 2017, 12:50:14 PM »
If he does, I think the mantle should be called "Warden" and its primary purpose the capture and imprisonment of the bad guys.

329
DF Spoilers / Re: DuMorne and favors owed
« on: October 18, 2017, 08:12:17 PM »
Hmmm, I understand that. How would Harry claim that a task his liege set forth for him is a favor though. She has the ability to order him to do something and if he refuses she can kill or strip the mantle from him. Getting rid of the mantle would be a plus, but it is much more likely that she would outright kill him for a direct refusal. His only option is to refuse a request and hope that she comes back with "do it as a favor for me," but we have already seen in Skin Game that she is capable of arranging things so that Harry would find it impossible to refuse a request. If she wants Harry to do something she is going to set it up so that he can't say no.

330
DF Spoilers / Re: DuMorne and favors owed
« on: October 18, 2017, 04:03:55 PM »
A forum moderator has a duty to all forum users to be fair and impartial, but the obligation to remain a moderator is only to the site owner that hired him/her.

Similarly, as WK Harry owes fealty to all of Winter, but his obligation to remain WK is only to Mab based on the Changes deal. The SK deal with Mab is three tasks in exchange for all debt to Mab ceasing. That means if Harry completes a third favor, his obligation to remain as WK ends.

Apologies in advance for the length of the post. Cozarkian, are you saying that the Changes deal is completely separate from the previous favors/obligation set-up with Mab? I always saw it as a continuation. If so,I am a little confused about the chain of events with regards to this debt.

Harry owes a debt to Lea. He is able to forestall her for a year and a day at the end of GP by taking the poison. Lea is forced to sell that obligation to Mab due to her power increase from accepting the knife from Bianca in GP. Mab comes to Harry in Summer Knight and offers to erase the obligation in exchange for three favors. Harry accepts after a few conditions. The first favor is to act as Winter's Emissary which he completes. Then (in SK) Mab makes the Winter Knight offer:

"We have a traitor among us," Mab purred. "And he will be dealt with accordingly. After which there will be an opening for a new Knight." She watched me and said, "I would have someone worthy of more trust as his successor. Accept that power and all debts between us are canceled."

To me, this means erasing the obligation Mab took from Lea and the two favors Harry owes Mab for that obligation. Mab calls upon Harry again in Small Favor to be her emissary in the matter of the Denarians taking Marcone. She again makes the Winter Knight offer to Harry:

"Unless you should agree to take up the mantle of the Winter Knight," Mab said, smiling. "I should be forced to choose another Emissary if you did, and your involvement in this matter could end." This is followed by:

She tilted her head to one side and stared at me. "One day, wizard, you will kneel at my feet and ask me to bestow the mantle upon you."

"But not today."

"No," Mab said. "Today you repay me a favor. Just as I said you would."

Harry once again completes this task removing another favor leaving one still owed to erase his debt to Mab. Finally in Changes Harry calls upon Mab. He offers to become the Winter Knight with one condition:

"That before my service begins, you restore my body to health. That you grant me time enough to rescue my daughter and take her to safety, and strength and knowledge enough to succeed. And you give me your word that you will never command me to lift my hand against those I love."

Mab accepts, Harry kills Slate, and then Mab and Harry "seal the deal." Granted, at no point do either Mab or Harry mention this taking away the third favor owed or erasing Harrys previous obligation to Mab. Yet, based upon previous encounters this would erase Harry's third favor and his previous obligation to Mab wiping that previous slate clean.

My understanding is that the Winter Knight deal erased the obligation and favors and thus completing another favor will not negate the Winter Knight deal.

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