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Messages - Avernite

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16
DF Spoilers / Re: Adaptation Do's and Don'ts
« on: May 21, 2022, 08:33:14 PM »
The main theme is Harry trying to stay human and connected with humanity, from Storm Front where he openly advertises what he is through all the pop culture references, his desperate attempts to reconnect with Susan, his infection by Lash, his refusal to become the Winter Knight, his suicide attempt, it’s a constant battle for Harry not to become a monster, not become a peril for humanity, to stay human despite all the pain and loss and the offers of power and temptation.

You can’t compromise this about Harry, nor can you compromise the secondary characters important to this, Murphy, Michael, Will and Georgia, Butters, Molly, even Thomas whose battle against his inner monster mirrors Harry’s own, Uriel and Odin in all of his forms, Father Forthill. Everyone Harry looks to for moral advice and to stay grounded.

I think you have a fair point, but you forgot the other half - Harry's counterpoints. Sells, who goes mad with power. Marcone, who is kinda evil, kinda trying to do alright, and likely up for a fall. Nicodemus, who is a grade-A evil guy but loves it (and thinks his is the better path than Harry's). And maybe Cowl, if he ever comes back. Now you could probably mix away Cowl into the other two, but you can't have Harry's story without Marcone's and Nic's.

17
DF Spoilers / Re: Adaptation Do's and Don'ts
« on: May 21, 2022, 09:05:16 AM »
Yeah. Like, there were a lot of changes I didn't like (especially in the Two Towers, you did my boi Faramir dirty PJ).
Eh. I think you identified what the point is.

Twisting secondary characters into pretzels (Faramir, Denethor)? Can be done even if sad. You still kinda lose a key point of the story (that even good men fall for supernatural evil, if they have no supernatural backing from the good guys) but the same story echoed in the MCs saves it.
Twisting main characters/anatagonists? Not good, because secondaries still echoing the theme get overshadowed.

But what IS the theme of the Dresden Files, really? What's that essential core you cannot compromise? Normal human overcoming odds doesn't really apply, so what is it?

18
As I have said the real Battle Ground was in Harry’s head and heart, not Chicago and Sanya and Butters won. Their presence does make me wonder, was Lucifer lurking in Rudy’s lax trigger finger?

Ethnui’s presence in the mortal world would have mean’t the White God placing his champions on the field of Battle, Sanya and Butters, but also Harry to enforce his will in relation to no threats to reality which might threaten humanity. But could they really have been there for Harry?

Lucifer can’t touch the Knights, but Harry? He can turn Harry, he already tried once. Make a Starborn a Destroyer.

Eh. It seems to me this was a battle where Heaven and Hell were on the same side. After all, Marcone gave Harry the blood he needed.

19
DF Spoilers / Re: How did you find The Dresden Files?
« on: March 20, 2022, 07:46:24 PM »
I used to be an avid tvtropes reader, and, well, the Dresden files kept popping up in all my funky tropes (with nice explanations to boot) so I eventually decided to get a 3-first-books bundle.

The rest is history.

20
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 06, 2022, 08:58:56 PM »
The Kringle Mantle can be transferred on Halloween. It makes Kringle immortal, and Odin must die at Ragnarok.

I think that Marcone already has a list of who has been naughty or nice, at least in Chicago, and is checking it twice.

Just imagine how conflicted Harry would be, the self described Santa fanboy. It would be absolute torture, so that is a route Jim will likely take.

Torturing Harry within the confines of the story seems more his gig. Not with any random thing we can come up with.

Marcone might fit the Kringle mantle, as leader of the Wild Hunt, but he does not fit the Santa mantle as the great gift-giver at this time. He'd have to change too.

21
DF Spoilers / Re: Gamma Sword
« on: February 06, 2022, 08:53:17 PM »
TBH, I am not sure I buy that.

On/Off switch for goodie/baddie is easy. 'partial on' mode for yes demon/no human at the same time would have to be proven to exist at all.

22
DF Spoilers / Re: Fairy Godmothers
« on: February 04, 2022, 07:05:21 PM »
The Fallen need to partner up with a mortal being with free will, but not all wills are equal. Some are broken, weak and vacillating easily dominated by their Fallen. Others not so. We have seen Marcone’s will, he cannot be bullied, cajoled or seduced by a Fallen they would have to partner with him on less than equal terms, he can threaten to lay down his coin and he would do it, and place that coin somewhere humans couldn’t get at it for a very, very long time.

Lash started to get to Harry, by subterfuge, when Harry was aware of her he was able to get the upon hand and he changed Lash.

Marcone can dangle in front of Namshiel a couple of things, freedom from Nicky for one and the indulgence of Namshiel’s quest for magical knowledge for another. Both go with Marcone’s interests.

The big difference, of course, is Harry was sparring with a mere Shadow. Marcone has the real deal. I don't imagine Namshiel is anywhere near as easily directed as Lash.

Also I suspect laying down the coin would soon be quite hard for Marcone; he's getting older, and Namshiel will start keeping him going very soon.

23
DF Spoilers / Re: Prequels
« on: February 04, 2022, 07:01:37 PM »
What was the supernatural doing in lesser known (or at least referenced) historical events, like the Polish Deluge, collapse of Carolingian Europe (and the root of the Carpenter line), the 30/80 years war, the 2nd Punic war...

But of course those aren't gonna happen because then the author would have to know them well enough to tweak them. But MW, Odin, Ferro, and the former Red King would've seen them all (in the Red King's case, for certain values of 'seen', no idea if the supernatural was already global).

For more likely cases:
- The ascendance of Mab
- The first Knights of the Cross after TWC died. We suspect they have been here before then given the Kusanagi connection, but how did that all go?
- The takedown of Abdul Alhazred

24
Thinking about it Winter is all about sex and death, so Thomas finding a point congruent to a sex club in Chicago in Winter territory wouldn’t have been that difficult for him. He might have struggled in other parts of the Never Never but Faerie is the closest to the mortal realm and contains the majority of routes.

It does however indicate Winter probably already had an unhealthy fascination with Chicago before Grave Peril. Was Harry nudged there by Lea instead of going to say Kansas City when he left Hog Hollow because it was easier for her to stalk him there?

Aside from Demonreach, prior to Harry moving to Chicago  you had it as a residence of a Knight of the Sword and the Summer Knight (Ruel) who looked after changelings of both Courts a Supernatural connections. You also had it as a residence of the Raith family.

An intriguing thought, and something the Reds may have been noticing too; everyone was stacking agents in Chicago, and still is (see: Namshiel/Marcone, Butters, the Fomor starborn, the Titan, Svartalfs - but by now they may be drawn there by Harry as well as all the reasons why Lea may have nudged him there).

25
DF Spoilers / Re: The Gods of Pro Wrestling
« on: January 09, 2022, 06:22:31 PM »
I hadn't considered how blatant Heaven and Hell were in interfering during the Battle of Chicago. I'm sure part of what allowed Ethniu to fully manifest was the Titanic Bronze armour.

I think we've missed in this discussion is the difference between a parasocial fandom relationship and worship or in other words the relationship between a god and their worshippers. To paraphrase Ian Cameron Esselmont in Orb Sceptre Throne "Ascendancy (a lesser form of Godhood in the Malazan world) is a constant battle between what your worshippers want and what you want". A parasocial relationship is a one way thing, worship isn't. As discussed the largest religious groups in Chicago are Monotheistic incarnations of the White God, worshippers were under threat so the White God intervened in a pretty dramatic fashion.

There are also limits to standard celebrity, it's incredibly difficult to control the narrative around yourself in the modern celebrity ecosystem and what are gods if not narratives given power and flesh? Someone mentioned the college athlete who doesn't win the big one and if a god were to keep adopting that guise they would become the god of close but no cigar.

Which brings me back to the beautiful art of pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is stunts tied together by a story and you can reuse the same narratives over and over again almost like telling a myth. For a god who is a pro wrestler (and I'm betting Thor will have crossed over to pro wrestling like so many football players before him) you can use your control of the narrative to maintain your domain and when you are prayed too by your devotees you can offer something back. Imagine for a second you're the underdog in a competition, you know you should lose but refuse to. Now praying to Heath Slater (or whatever memetic loser you want to pick) isn't going to help much, while praying to a god inspired by Rey Mysterio or Bryan Danielson may get you somewhere.

As for Elon if he is a god I'd speculate he's Mammon or someone like that. He didn't invent squat and really pursues some counterintuitive goals in the name of greed.
Though, I wonder, would such a god then be the god of 'fighting a scripted battle with pre-determined winners'? Would be a lousy job title when faced with e.g. Harry 'the rules are more like guidelines, really' Dresden.

26
DF Spoilers / Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« on: December 22, 2021, 12:55:36 PM »
Uriel would be able to defeat Harry by unmaking the whole planet, but would be at risk if actually on the island.

I suspect many others have similar risks; stirring up Lake Michigan so the island floods would probably kill Harry, and even the Ladies could probably pull that (at least Molly could freeze large water bodies), but going into Harry's reach means you've mitigated most of such 'nuclear' options.

And of course, Harry is a mortal, so he has some advantages like circle traps. I wonder if Harry could use the island to empower a circle with his will, trapping anything overly supernatural. Odin or Drakul might be able to step out or smudge it for being just mortal-world enough, but not if they're wanting to go high-stakes magic combat right after (I assume, at least, that Odin has ways to store his powerups for later use outside of his person). Anyone else able to fight Harry on the island would definitely not be able to do it.

Well, except Lara could probably convince the US military to test some high-grade ordinance on that good-for-nothing empty island in the lake, why not?

27
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry should have trusted Ramirez
« on: December 17, 2021, 09:42:04 PM »
Mac isn't,but that is beside the point,I actually think the more interesting,and maybe important question is why do Michael and Mac,oh and throw Sanya in there as well, trust him? Shiro was willing to die horribly in his place and trust him with the custody of a Holy Sword, Michael turned his over as well.  It was Michael who convinced Harry he wasn't, when Harry was beginning to believe everyone else was right, that he was a monster.  Rashid is into trust but verify, but mostly he trusts Harry.  Listen's to Wind also seems to trust Harry, Eb is his grandfather, I also think Eb might be a bit clueless about him as well. So is it inside information or what?

Well. I don't know if it is Inside Information, anymore, but there certainly was back when Harry met Shiro and Sanya - they came to stop him from interfering because he'd die. Harry, stupid/brave/noble self-sacrificer that he is, stepped in to protect them. That move, risking himself to save others, is what made his reputation - and what got him Swords (next to of course the following period where he kept being nobly self-sacrificing).

Ah, you might say, what of Winter? But Michael knows more than just this - he knows that Harry had a Denarian in his head and still never cracked.
What temptation an icy queen, when he has resisted a temptress who was there when the first mortal drew the first breath? Michael is not overly concerned, and rightly so; but very few other people know Harry has resisted the strongest temptation the world has to offer.

28
DF Spoilers / Re: Outer Gates and cup of coffee.
« on: December 17, 2021, 09:32:17 PM »
The whole move together with Mother Summer implies to me that Faerie is ridiculously large. Else Harry could just find a route himself.

Or perhaps it's rather disjointed, with MS teleporting Harry along a particular route, Winter/Summer having alternative shortcuts that only the Fae take.

In either case, I would suspect the NN extends sideways a whole lot. We know Hades has a realm that touches reality, but I suspect it doesn't touch the Gates. When Ferrovax wants to Dragon around he probably has his demesne in the NN too.

So... Faerie and some others border reality. Faerie is big and mighty so it also extends to the Outer Gates. Others are wimpy so border only reality, and no doubt several realms usually don't really border reality, but can be shifted there by strong beings who haven't been Oblivioned (or by humans connecting with them).

29
DF Spoilers / Re: How powerful is Ivy getting?
« on: November 29, 2021, 08:01:29 PM »
That was Luccio's point, how dangerous an emotional vessel can be.  It isn't that Ivy should get out of the way, but more like she is "Spock like" when she uses and wields the Archive.
Ah I missed we had sidestepped the power discussion there. In that case I don't agree with Luccio, but I see the point. 'The Warrior' told me being a hamfisted person trying to do good is better than detachment, at least in this world.

Though I still suspect the sheer amount of data being pumped into the Archive is bound to have an effect. Sure most of it is just noise or repetition, but the flow of information is increasing too.

30
DF Spoilers / Re: How powerful is Ivy getting?
« on: November 28, 2021, 08:58:53 PM »

   I really don't think it is a matter of how powerful Ivy is getting, the Archive always had that power.
  The issue has always been of Ivy controlling her emotions and letting the Archive doing what it needs to do.  I think that is what Luccio was getting at when she warned Harry about treating Ivy like a normal little girl at the end of Small Favor.

The Archive must inherently be conservative - after all it's fighting a war that takes centuries / millennia. What Harry was doing is push it/her to be active NOW, which is a risk, but comes with way more power expenditure.

So if Ivy gets out of the way and only the Archive acts, it will be careful to extricate itself from situations where she can show her power. But when Ivy acts, she stands up and shows what the Archive can really unleash in terms of direct power, as she did at the aquarium.

(the more subtle power of information, that probably works better in Archive-mode)

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