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Messages - Ananda

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 24, 2018, 10:55:36 AM »
You pretty much shut off cruelty didn't you?
I don't understand what you're asking here. Could you rephrase it or elaborate, please?

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 23, 2018, 10:52:42 AM »
I've spoilered this because I'm really talking to myself.This truly begs the question of Harry's ethical position vis a vis the Reds, upon who he committed genocide. As a sentient being being eaten isn't really on my agenda, and anything that tries, will pay if I can arrange it. In a real sense evil is meaningless in that context.

I've been saying that there is no such thing as evil, good, bad, or otherwise *objectively* for a bit now and even said I don't think free will as we typically think of it even exists. :D Of course, the subjective experience is something different, though only "real" in the same way that the sociological phenomenon of "definition of situation" is real (where you, for example, see someone wearing a lab coat and decide they have medical authority and so grant them that authority even if they don't have any medical training). It's not the true situation, but, for one acting under that thought process, it becomes the true situation.

Further, I'd say that sentience is not a hard line binary; either you're exactly like us or you're not sentient. I'd express it's more of a slope and we're only at the top of it because we've created the measurements. However, even by our own measurements, all other mammals, birds, even fish share the same biological structures. We all evolved from the same sources, after all and, the closer another animal is to us, the closer they are to us on our self-determined scale. Of course, it's easier to see everything as binary as that removes all pesky complications like thinking about how we, as a species, interact with other species.

It's a good question about the genocide. You should start a discussion about the ethicalness (is that a word?) of said action.

Harry's world has a very Christian ethic, evidenced by this passage from the fight at the pyramid at Chichen ItzaObviously God has a point of view, the Red's were evil, and they had to pay when the check was presented.
But, all characters in the books have a point of view. Each one is just expressing their nature or desires through thought and action (or inaction). To say that, because one of the faeries or magic beings proclaimed something makes it the dominant viewpoint might be going a bit far. Mab takes plenty of action, judges and so in the books. It doesn't follow that the world they live in therefore has a Mab ethic. Neither does it follow that it has a christian ethic because of the pronouncements of those characters. It only demonstrates their particular point of view.

The difference between Thomas and Lara is that Thomas cares and struggles against what he is.  It's a narrow hair and JB splits it.
I'd say there is no difference in the end. And, why would one struggle against being who they are? That's a common theme in literature to be certain, but, in practice, it's just self-torture. And, if a society imposes that struggle, then one might even say that it's cruelty.

I had three lovely cats and they drove me crazy in a very fun way.  I miss them.
Aww. We lost two cats within a month of each other a few years ago. It was really terrible. You ever think about getting a new kitty?

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 22, 2018, 10:28:11 PM »
There is logic in emotions.
If you change that to predictability or pattern, then I’ll agree completely. An obvious example is taken from the headlines; fear allows for control. Get people scared and a certain percentage will go along with anything. Bypassing reason by stirring emotions is a predictable and easily accessible form of control currently being used to great effect. Various studies have shown this and it’s predictability has been weaponised.

I’d say that logic steps can be created to exploit these things, but the fear et al aren’t, in themselves, logical, just predictable.

In summation, those pesky vampires aren’t, by necessity, bad guys or whatever you said, for eating. In fact, it might be unethical to not allow them to eat at all. I think the standard of judgement would be in the details of the treatment of their food sources, thus full circle to my initial comment paralleling the human relationship with other animals.

Now, we ought to co-author a paper for a philosophy journal exploring the ethics of refusing vampires food.
Never tried those, I would have to order them online.
We order our cat’s food online as the prices are much lower than buying off the shelf and, if you spend 500kr on the site we use, the shipping is free.

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 21, 2018, 09:51:15 PM »
Not surprising because the word evil is all about emotion. It is about empathy and fear. Without emotions the word evil has no meaning.But the word evil is about value judgements. You assign value to what is good and you judge evil what is threatening good.
But *you* were the one who said it is all very logical.  :o Are you a politician? 

If you create too much distance the words good and evil become meaningless.
Wot? I said it’s a combination of evolutionary biology, chemical reactions, and circumstances. I.E. a subjective experience only “real” like a sunset because of perspective (since the sun doesn’t actually set, it just spins and follows its orbital trajectory). Also, each perceiver’s perceptions are different, so, while a great deal of overlap exists because of shared biology, true understanding of another’s experience doesn’t quite exist and even shared broad concepts are wobbly.  ;D But, objectively, none of it is actually how things are because things just *are* (or are not (what’s the sound of one boddisattva clapping? Om mani padme ho hum?)).

On that note, I think we may be talking past one another anyway. This format doesn’t make it easier.

Our first cat ate everything that came out of a tin and was labeled cat food. Our current cats only eat a few things and we have tried everything on the shelves. We humans here only eat free ranged meat but cats....
Have you tried tundra or carnilove cans? They’re pretty expensive, but very high quality. It’s funny what different cats will love. One of our cats shared breakfast with my husband every morning for years because she loved the little swedish style pancakes (plätter) he’d have with a spoon of jam and gladly finish anything sweet left on his dessert plate. Our cat now has no interest at all in his breakfast, but goes crazy for croissants if I buy one to coffee from the bakery downstairs and eats about a quarter of it. She’s also fond of camembert. She sticks her nose up at the cat food our previous cat used to love, too. She has a savoury tooth to the other’s sweet.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's name: NMWYG, TYA
« on: October 21, 2018, 09:07:50 PM »
Welcome back. No comment on the name theory, but I absolutely *love* that you explained your DF time travel theory to your therapist. :) I had to post a time travel theory of my own in your absence a month or two ago.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Create a fake spoiler for Peace Talks - for fun
« on: October 21, 2018, 09:00:12 PM »
What bit broke off?
I knew that I could count on you! 
A finger. According to the text, she wasn’t going to use it at first, but ended up using it ... in the end.  8)

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 16, 2018, 11:53:08 PM »
I think you may have shifted the goal a bit. Your first statement seemed to be a sweeping characterisation of their objective place in that universe. Your follow up statement is now more a human endemic point of view.

Also, I’d point out that your supporting examples for your logic argument are direct appeals to emotion.

In my opinion, if examining the food chain logically, those higher on it eat those who are lower. There is no value judgement for choosing to live by eating. The value judgment only enters on how you do it and *that* is where empathy and sympathy live and only because we’ve evolved these systems likely as part of a species survival mechanism (as all mammals and many other species). The concept of “evil” itself is just a mirror back to these chemical reactions in our brains as our developed minds attempt to find patterns and meaning when these evolved mechanisms and our ability to interpret them exceeded the initial design. Hydrogen has no such hangups. :)

And, no judgement there. Personally, I think we’re captives to our chemical reactions and the emotions they cause combined with socialisation, circumstances, et cetera. I don’t even think we have free will as we think of it, but that’s another topic.

As for your neighbour, have you ever considered a pet tiger? I hear they have fearful symmetry. Our cat might help, too. She’s on an allergy diet for two months and her canned food’s main ingredient is potato peels so she’s craving meat. She now wakes me daily at 4.00, 4.30, 5.00 and so to loudly complain about the lack of chicken on her plate.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Create a fake spoiler for Peace Talks - for fun
« on: October 14, 2018, 11:01:51 PM »
I was going to skip over the sex scene with Mavra in Peace Talks, but it was actually very well done and, surprisingly, rather steamy despite the near vomit inducing portion when one of her bits broke off during the encounter and she used it as a sex toy on her shocked partner.

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 14, 2018, 10:51:45 PM »
Sure but an intelligent creature that eats humans is usually seen as evil. An animal gets a pass because it is not intelligent enough to be considered truly evil.
Humans have entire industry setup where the unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals for food is done to save a few coins rather than making a little less profit but treating the animals ethically. Countries like america, germany, danmark are among the worst in the west (not that there aren’t exceptions in each place). One assumes the DF universe is the same as ours in that respect. This would make the categorisation of eating free ranged humans here and there as “evil” a bit rich. Of course, we’re not very logical animals and cognitive dissonance is a thing. :)

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DF Books / Re: Perfect Casting Part Three
« on: October 14, 2018, 10:28:30 PM »
That Ridley Scott series sounds interesting.

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DF Books / Re: White Court: emotions
« on: October 13, 2018, 02:40:51 PM »
In the end they feed on other peoples life energy, they are vampires. They can not be good guys.
All animals eat and that, most often, involves death.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Who are the members of the Grey Council?
« on: September 15, 2018, 09:39:14 AM »
The Merlin being a member would require things such that literally everything we've ever heard anyone say about it would be a lie.  And while Harry might not know everyone, Eb probably does, because someone's got to be able to organize things, and he's said jackall when the subject came up.
Well, it is my opinion, after all. Also, it would not require “literally” everything we’ve heard about the merlin to be a “lie.”  I heard he was the merlin. I also heard he was a man. I also heard, et cetera. Apply some of that expertise on idioms you have and you will quickly find that 1: you actually know very little about the man and, b: it’s a first person pov story where the narrator is unreliable, prone to personal bias, and knows very little of the larger picture by necessity for the story surprises to work.

Also, no one ever said Eb was the leader, if I remember correctly. He said that he and a few people he trusts are doing something. Even if he were a defacto leader, this doesn’t negate the possibility of the merlin being a string puller, covert member, or open member. The only thing we actually know is that Dresden doesn’t know who most of them are. That said, it’s still, like, my opinion, man (big lebowski reference). I don’t feel strongly about it.

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DF Books / Re: Perfect Casting Part Three
« on: September 15, 2018, 09:20:53 AM »
Grace Jones would be a good Mab. She still looks amazing.



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DF Spoilers / Re: Who are the members of the Grey Council?
« on: September 14, 2018, 02:20:05 PM »
I think the merlin is a member. He told Dresden he was going to wipe out the reds which means he had a plan to wipe them out that day. I think something close to what happened was his plan. He may be disguised to other members or a string puller.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Will the Big Moment Come in Peace Talks?
« on: August 26, 2018, 10:33:20 PM »
I'm confused.  Are you talking about translating the Dresden Files, or the Bible?
I was talking about the bible, but it’s the same for the DF.

Unless you’re translating a list of ingredients, you don’t translate word for word. You translate meaning and intent, but there are many times where language 1 has a way of saying something that is not in language 2. This is particularly evident when you get into figurative and poetic works. I’ve translated a fair amount (not literary works) but, even websites describing the beach or forest near the hotel use figurative speech and metaphor.

Here are three different translations of one of my favourite lines from the play, Agamemnon. This is Clytaemestra upon killing her husband. One is vivid, alive, and poetic, one is decent, and one is just plain boring, but all three say the same general thing. The difference? License.

Quote
Thus he went down, and the life struggled out of him;
[and as he died he spattered me with the dark red
and violent driven rain of bitter-savored blood
to make me glad, as plants stand strong amidst the showers
of god in glory at the birthtime of the buds.

Quote
Fallen thus, he gasped away his life, and as he breathed forth quick spurts of blood, [1390] he struck me with dark drops of gory dew; while I rejoiced no less than the sown earth is gladdened in heaven's refreshing rain at the birthtime of the flower buds.

Quote
So he fell, his life throbbed away; breath and blood spurting out him of like a shower, spattering me with drops of crimson dew. I soaked it up joyfully as spring buds do the gods’ sweet rain.

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