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Messages - Mira

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1
DF Spoilers / Re: Ghost Story--two things
« on: Yesterday at 12:29:52 PM »
Quote from: g33k on Yesterday at 02:39:47 AM
I'd need to re-read that whole scene.
It may have been quite a while before he "learned" about this; and it may only have been a "potential" method that "might" work, but I think he was pretty desperate, and would take even a long-shot chance.

But also:  Raith Père was working with Outsider magic.  So this may have been information fed to him by them, with dubious correctness.

I have to reread the scene as well.  Actually the whole book because I imagine there are a lot of clues as to what is going on now in it.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Ghost Story--two things
« on: Yesterday at 01:11:36 AM »
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IIRC, Papa thought that sacrificing Harry and/or Thomas was the way to escape Margaret's curse.

 If Papa Raith thought it would work, he could have sacrificed one of them at any time, especially Thomas.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Ghost Story--two things--Three?
« on: June 12, 2025, 07:12:43 PM »
Quote from: EBRIEN on June 12, 2025, 02:34:44 PM
When Harry wasn't quite dead...Would Papa Wraith have been able to feed? Or feel twinges of his former self?

Can you imagine? He's like...Ummm...that's a familiar feeling...Could it be? Maybe? .....crap. Nope.

Since it was Margaret's death curse that caused Papa Raith not to feed, I don't think it makes any difference whether Harry is alive or dead or only mostly dead, Papa Raith won't be able to feed.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Two plus two is Starborn
« on: June 10, 2025, 12:05:26 PM »
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We know the infection happened about the time that Justine started working for Lara. Therefore, sometime after Blood Rites. We know from the Marcone story that Justine was sent as Mab's envoy to other accorded nations. She could have been infected on one of these trips away from the White Court or, as suggested, by Nemesis influence in the White Court seeking a closer connection to the queen.


Do we?  The assumption is that Thomas stopped short of killing Justine when he fed upon her to save his life in Blood Rites because of his true love...  There is a couple of things wrong with that, the first being "true love."  Did it become that after Thomas nearly killed her? Or did he stop because he truly loved her?  Either way, how come neither suffered from third degree burns or any burns at all?  Justine just ended up with white hair.. The other is Thomas was under the impression that he had indeed killed Justine.. Only later if I remember correctly did he find out that he hadn't..  So if Thomas stopped feeding to save Justine at the risk of his own, it wasn't a decision he was aware of.. So he involuntarily stopped feeding while he was out of it because he loved her?  Wow, Justine survives, she becomes Lara's secretary, deeply embedded in White Court affairs and much closer to the star born Harry Dresden because of Thomas.. Just a wee bit pat, don't you think? 

As for Lara not being infected, who knows?  I mean until the victim of the infection starts to act totally out of character, there are no real symptoms.. Lea went along for a while undetected until she actually told Mab herself.  Mab didn't realize that Maeve was infected until it was too late to save her.. Nobody realized that Aurora was infected until she started a war with Winter.. Harry had no clue that Cat Sith was infected until he started acting crazy, and none at all that Justine was until it almost ended in disaster..  So is Lara infected, I doubt it, but at the same time it is hard to tell whether she is or not..

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DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 09, 2025, 05:04:42 PM »
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I would contend that Lara sees Harry as a trusted enemy not ally. Someone you know can turn on you, but you also can trust them to act a certain way. In Harry's case, he is a know white knight that has a strong moral compass. Lara knows what strings she can pull to get a certain response out of Harry. It will be interesting to see how this might change in Twelve Months.

 It isn't about Lara or Thomas trusting Harry, they can.. It's about Harry trusting them.  It isn't a matter of morality either, back to the pet tiger analogy, as much as you love it and believe you can trust it, if it is hungry enough, it's natural instinct wins, and it could eat you.  Vampires do what vampires do, that is what Eb is telling Harry.  Now whether this is from Eb's own personal trauma, as in one killing his wife, or from the general experience and knowledge of his 200 plus years we haven't been told yet.

6
DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 09, 2025, 12:42:48 PM »
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Thomas still sees Harry as a trusted ally, still loves Harry (and Justine).

  The same in many ways could be said for Lara, however she remains a dangerous vampire with the values that go with it.
   More clearly Thomas is now like having a pet tiger in your house.  No, I am not saying that Thomas is in any way a pet.  What I am saying is that pet tiger might trust that you will feed him and care for him, he might even show affection for you.. However that tiger is still a tiger and has reverted back to what nature intended, and you can't trust that he won't turn and eat you some day.  I believe that is what Eb is trying to tell Harry.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 08, 2025, 07:11:46 PM »
Quote from: Dina on June 08, 2025, 06:51:23 PM
I hope your cat is doing well  :)

I think the Hunger won but it could be reverted. But he needs the chance to try, and things are more than complicated now.

 Oh Mindy Mouser is doing very well!  I have a touch screen and she likes to get between it and the key board purring madly fro attention, then because she touches the screen it goes crazy. 

Yes, things are a lot more complicated for Thomas now.. Hopefully it will be a happy ending for Justine, Thomas, and baby..If there really is one.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 08, 2025, 12:06:09 PM »
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That's Thomas' reality, as a predator.  It feels good.  And he needs to be able to handle that.

That's the point though, remember the mirror image in the soul gaze?  Sorry my cat is helping me type.. 

She is now out chasing butterflies.  Anyway, in the soul gaze we saw the struggle between the human Thomas and the Hunger.
With the Skin Walker's help, the Hunger has won.  No, it isn't like our breathing.. 

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DF Spoilers / Re: Ghost Story--two things
« on: June 08, 2025, 12:03:35 PM »
Quote from: g33k on June 08, 2025, 04:02:57 AM
GS took me a while to come to grips with it, but I did so by about 1/3 - 1/2 way through, and enjoyed the rest (and all of each re-read) very much.

I think Winter is very physical, very embodied, very animal.
Winter has very little traction with a ghost/soul.
The human soul is out of Mab's jurisdiction, free will win the day..   

10
DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 07, 2025, 02:25:46 AM »
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Agreed. The Skinwalker just tortured him to near death and allowed him to feed himself back to health. He wasn't actively trying to talk him into something he was just training him. I liken it to taking a recovering alcoholic, trapping him without water, waiting until her was dehydrated, and giving him only alcohol to drink. The alcoholic will walk out thinking that alcohol is what has freed him from his prison and i necessary for his ongoing life.

First of all if you gave an alcoholic only alcohol to drink, he would die of thirst.  Second what the Skin Walker did to Thomas goes deeper than feeding upon those girls to survive.. Thomas confesses to Harry that he began to enjoy it. You don't just undo something like that, that's what is missing in my opinion, the struggle and Harry coming to terms or not with it.

11
DF Spoilers / Re: Ghost Story--two things
« on: June 07, 2025, 02:19:10 AM »

  I think as one goes back and rereads books in a series, stuff that may not move when first read, hits home on the reread.  Why because we see the character in the now, and going back to the earlier books we see how and understand why they became.

12
DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 06, 2025, 10:10:06 PM »
Quote from: g33k on June 05, 2025, 11:17:33 PM
No, the Whamps' spellcasting &c is only Paranet-caliber magic, sub-WhiteCouncil stuff.  They can use it in conjunction with their Hunger to pull off some pretty potent tricks (presumably in the realm of mind-magic).

Now -- in addition to that -- his father may have "discouraged" Thomas from exploring his magic.  It's a reasonable theory, for sure!

Yes, but the point remains, during the year he lived with Harry, Thomas made no effort to learn any magic.. Nor on page anyway discuss with Harry the possibility that he may have talent.  Since whether a kid has talent or not just seems to pop up, i .e. Harry discovered at age 11 that he could out jump etc beyond what would or should be possible all the kids he came in contact with.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Turncoat
« on: June 06, 2025, 10:06:13 PM »
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1. Eb was right
So far all indication are that Eb was right. Look at the kid Molly bent to help him stop doing drugs. The kid was was torn apart. He fought against the programming. The girl was ok because she had agreed to the changes her programming gave her. According to the rules of the verse you cant force someone to do something they don't want to do no matter how harmless it seems without  that harming them.

Actually I think you are comparing apples to oranges here, while yes, both are fruit because the involve mind manipulation, they are very different.  In the case of Molly messing with the minds of her friends to get them off of drugs, she had neither experience or proper instruction she plowed into their minds because with her talent, because she could.  I understand that her goal was noble but essentially she did great damage because she didn't know what the hell she was doing.  It would be like I know you need an operation to remove your appendix and because I own a scalpel, I try to do it myself.  Most likely because of the images Molly wanted to try and get them off of the drugs she cause them to go insane.. In the case of Peabody's ink, he never went into their minds, Luccio and others came in contact with the ink and it clouded their judgement, made them vulnerable to suggestion.. Like taking too much alcohol, only worse.

14
DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 05, 2025, 11:57:59 AM »
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Oh, you might be correct. I just looked up the timeline. I always thought that she met Malcolm after her escape. Now it makes sense: she needed to escape and leave Thomas, because she was pregnant with a non vampire child in a vampire household.

That's the one thing Eb does tell Harry about Margaret in Blood Rites, that after she met and fell in love with Malcolm,she found the strength to leave Lord Raith.

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My thoughts on Harry being planned are from IIRC two comments somewhere in the books: I can't remember who said it, but it went like "what they bred you for" (was it Nicodemus or Dracul?) and "what he was meant to be" by Martha Liberty or Listens-to-Wind in Summer Knight. This implies that Harry's existence didn't seem to be random.
@Talby16: so, Thomas wasn't planned. What a relief.

Lash spells it out for Harry in White Night, his conception was no accident, a lot of factors go into it.  Now not clear was this something that Margaret thought up on her own?  Doubtful since everyone but Harry seem to know what Harry is and why he was conceived, so a given that a star born would be conceived.  However who, or what planned this is a bit more of a mystery.  If the White Council planned it, it's doubtful they would choose Margaret, an outlaw basically, to be the mother of their star born.. Martha Liberty did say to Listens to Wind that they knew what Harry was meant to be, or more accurate they suspect, or believe, dangerous and not nice, i.e. Listen and Drakul..  However Margaret seemingly on her own again, if Lash is to be believed in White Night decided to do this after she fell in love with a truly good man, Malcolm.  I think the plan was always out there, i.e. the year was right, we know now star born happen every so many years, in her usual rebellious way, Margaret chose to throw a monkey wrench into everyone's plans by conceiving a star born with a truly good man.  This is what sets Harry apart from the rest of the star born, it is significant and no accident that it is repeated constantly though out the series that Harry inherited his father's good heart among other things.  So there most likely was a plan out there for the conception of a star born, but when Margaret conceived Harry with Malcolm, it backfired.  However I think a huge clue as to why ultimately the White Council elected to throw Harry out, is they know what Harry was meant to be, as Martha Liberty said, but they, with the exception of Eb never knew Malcolm, so they have no clue who Harry really is.

As to whether or not Thomas was planned, if we go by the information in Peace Talks he was born in the wrong year to be a star born unless there is a lot of wiggle room say plus or minus a decade.  I still think Margaret knew that having sex with Lord Raith, most likely unprotected sex meant she could or would become pregnant by him, which happened.  However I still think she found a way for her talent not to be passed onto any child she conceived with Lord Raith.  And yes, Thomas could still have some talent, I seem to remember either Harry saying it or it could be a WOJ that everyone, even vanilla humans are born with some magical talent..

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DF Spoilers / Re: Thomas
« on: June 04, 2025, 10:55:16 PM »
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As far as Harry having a "spidey sense" with regards to magical talent, he can tell either through direct physical contact with someone or by deliberately reaching out with his senses to scan their aura. Harry has said that when he touches another person with magical talent it feels like an electric shock with bigger jolts corresponding to bigger talents. If I recall correctly, actively sensing someone's aura is harder to do and more invasive. It is uncomfortable for the wizard having their aura scanned and therefore not considered polite. Most wizards do not do that for that reason. In addition, wizards can shield their aura at least partly. As far as Maggie Sr goes, we know that magic is passed along the female line. Therefore, she would have had to know that Thomas would have had a chance at inheriting magic. Magical talent does not express until early teenage years and I do not think there is a way to gauge magic talent before it is expressed.

During their soul gaze, Harry would have been in close contact with the aura of Thomas, plus the soul gaze itself should have revealed something about it.  I say that considering what Harry saw in his gaze with Molly, her possible futures.  Magical talent was one of the things not mentioned.. Plus that was the moment that Margaret gifted Harry with insight, no insight as far as talent and Thomas was concerned.  As far no way of gauging whether or not Thomas had talent before hand, maybe not, but Margaret was also the only wizard in her death curse to have had any effect on Lord Raith at all.  Eb, the Blackstaff himself wasn't able to accomplish that, perhaps she also found a way to block any magical genes she could pass on to any offspring she could conceive with Lord Raith.  Remember she also figured out how to create a star born, so this might have been child's play for her.  Most star borns are accidents in my opinion, just a matter of being born in the right time when the stars are aligned.   However Harry was no accident, he was planned, and Margaret only planned his birth after she met Malcolm.. Malcolm's genes were very important to her so she wouldn't end up with another Drakul or Listens.  I think Margaret knew that once she left Lord Raith, it would be such a blow to his ego that she was a dead woman walking.  She may have also thought that once she was dead, while Harry maybe safe for a while at least with Malcolm, Thomas wouldn't be.  Raith may have thought that the infant Harry even if he grew up to be a wizard would be no threat to him, while a vampire son of his would be.  That's why Raith did indeed kill off all of his sons.. Thomas lasted longer than most, but he was living on borrowed time.

Then there would be the matter of how does a vanilla human raise a would be vampire son? No, Margaret knew Lara very well, and knew that Thomas would be safe in her care, so she may have thought leaving him with Lara was the best thing she could do for him.  Notice to that Thomas has never harbored any resentment or ill feelings towards his mother for leaving him.

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