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Messages - ironpoet

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DFRPG / Re: How do you handle social actions during physical combat?
« on: July 15, 2014, 09:01:39 PM »
I usually like to limit a conflict to one type of stress, that of the main focus of the fight. If it's a gun or fist fight, that's physical, if it's a discussion or some weird spell, that's mental, if it's some negotiation or something similar, social. I only allow actions that don't fit that type to be maneuvers to aid the main actions.

I expect that the majority of conflicts would be covered by a single stress track.  But I can imagine a few where that wouldn't make sense.  For example, what about a scenario where one half of the combat wants to beat up the other half, while the other half wants to talk them out of it?

(You know, something appropriately dramatic like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G8V00SkTvY)

I would imagine that the dramatic tension in this sort of scenario would be: Can I get through to [Character X] before they beat me unconscious (or kill me)?  In that case, it wouldn't make sense to break up the physical and social/mental conflicts.

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DFRPG / Re: Fans of the show Leverage? How would you stat Elliot?
« on: July 15, 2014, 08:46:42 PM »
I wouldn't allow this stunt.  There's only one power that does this and it's Blood drinker.  And that's a Power(not a stunt) and it requires you to kill someone first.

I might allow it for the cost of a FP, once/scene.

That's sounds like a good tweak.  I think you're right about it being too powerful (in certain fights, it would double your stress track!)

I'd actually been thinking of the "Shrug it off" section from the Inhuman Recovery power (once per scene, remove one mild consequence) but remembered the details wrong.  By itself, that might be acceptable as a stunt, as long as it's clear that taking Inhuman Recovery later would replace that stunt.

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DFRPG / Re: Fans of the show Leverage? How would you stat Elliot?
« on: July 15, 2014, 02:10:39 PM »
In my opinion, Elliot should have higher Endurance (I'd make it his highest skill) as well as some Endurance/Toughness stunts.  In the show, he was always getting beaten down but he just kept getting up again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeLYWVVMo_w

Possible stunts:
"Why won't you stay down?" Allows Elliot to take 1 additional minor consequences
"Got my second wind" Allows him to clear his entire stress track once per scene

I'd probably lower Resources, too, since he never seemed to use money that much, so maybe...
Skills:
Superb: Performance (Cooking)
Great: Endurance, Athletics
Good: Fists , Weapons
Fair: Deceit, Scholarship
Average: Might, Stealth

(The Superb cooking skill might be a bit of a stretch...)

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DFRPG / Re: How do you handle social actions during physical combat?
« on: July 11, 2014, 08:21:44 PM »
According to the rules, you can take down a dragon purely with Intimidation, without needing to spend FP (mental attack and all)

While I don't have the rules in front of me, my understanding is that the rules don't explicitly allow you to do this during combat.  I thought that form of mental attack was more like an interrogation scene, where you continue to apply pressure on someone over a long period of time.  So you could perhaps make an intimidation mental attack on the dragon before combat began (and hopefully avoid combat altogether), but once that dragon decided that you're worth roasting alive, you probably wouldn't have time to make a proper intimidation attack while dodging fire blasts.

Regardless, the rules are a bit vague about what social actions are or aren't possible during combat (as indicated by some of the related links that have been posted), so I'm looking for either some consistent rule interpretations or some clean house rules to suggest for our game.

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DFRPG / Re: How do you handle social actions during physical combat?
« on: July 11, 2014, 07:06:13 PM »
Thanks for all the replies, as well as the links.

I think we're all pretty much agreed that social maneuvers can be attempted mid-combat, with the GM being the arbiter of whether a maneuver is appropriate or not.  So you could easily make your opponent DISTRACTED or LOSING THEIR TEMPER, which could both be tagged later.

What about adding an additional threshold for social attacks and blocks?
  • You can tag or invoke an appropriate aspect to be able to make specific social attacks in the middle of combat
Some examples:
  • If you were fighting against a bunch of UNDERPAID MOOKS, you could invoke that aspect with a Fate Point to allow you to make and Intimidation Attack.  Against a tougher opponent, there wouldn't be an aspect to suggest that scaring them during the fight was possible.
  • If you already assessed that a Valkyrie character was LOOKING FOR HER FATHER, you could spend a Fate Point to Block her sword attack with Deceit ("Wait!  I am your father!"). But the GM would rule that you could only make that Block once.

That way, you would leave the door open for some of the cool, fast social moments that happen in the middle of combat, but you don't open the door to a character taking out an undead dragon in combat via a couple of Intimidation rolls.

Thoughts?

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DFRPG / What happens when a shapeshifter crosses a threshold?
« on: July 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM »
Imagine a true shapeshifter (someone like Odo from Deep Space Nine) that is disguised as Daniel Carpenter's backpack.  If Danial (unaware of the switch) carries his "backpack" into the Carpenter home, what happens to the shapeshifter?
  • Do thresholds effect shapeshifting?
  • Did Daniel effectively "invite" his backpack into the house?
  • If not, would the shapeshifter revert to their natural form?
  • If not, would the shapeshifter be stuck as a backpack until it leaves the house?

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DFRPG / How do you handle social actions during physical combat?
« on: July 10, 2014, 03:11:11 PM »
I'm working on a trickster character who, among other things, would probably employ a wide range of social actions in a physical combat.

Maneuvers: This is fairly straightforward, and the most obvious use of social attacks.
  • "Look behind you!" (Deceit vs. Discipline/Alertness) applies the "Distracted" aspect, etc.

Blocks: Could blocks could be justified?
  • "If you kill us you'll be the monster they think you are!" (Rapport vs. Conviction) applies a block against attacks from the target
Attacks: Could you actually Take Out someone socially in the middle of a conflict?
  • "I'll rip your heart out!" (Intimidation vs. Conviction/Discipline) - Social attack intended to make the target flee
  • "She'll never love you" (Deceit/Rapport vs. Conviction/Discipline) - Social attack intended to make the target break down in tears
  • "What's the point of it all?" (Deceit/Rapport vs. Conviction/Discipline) - Social attack intended to make the target stop caring about the conflict
  • "Why can't we all just get along?" (Rapport vs. Conviction/Discipline) - Social attack intended to make the target switch sides

Defense: I would say that once an attack has been made, you couldn't defend against it socially ("Not in the face!") without a stunt or two.

There's lots of examples in movies/books/etc. of protagonists talking their way out of the middle of a fight (by converting, cowing, or confusing their opponent), and I'm interested in the best way to handle those actions mechanically.

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DFRPG / Re: Help with Enchanted Item?
« on: May 04, 2011, 07:41:29 PM »
New player, still wrapping my mind around the rules and want to find out if an Enchanted Item is feasible and, if so, how would be the best way to make it.

I want a book that gives a bonus to Lore/Scholarship when looking for information. 

The RP idea is that my Wizard is wearing glasses and everything he reads goes into this book.  He's worn them forever and everything he's read/seen is in this book in text, even articles read in passing.  The book is large (picture big leatherbound Oxford dictionaries in libraries) and not easily movable and the bonus would apply when he's doing research/data dumps/etc...he's a Bibliothcary.

I haven't found yet how to make an EI that effects skills, just powers (again, new to the rules).  Any suggestions on this to make it or improve upon it?  Thanks :)

How attached are you to the idea of a "bonus" to Lore/Scholarship?  It would be fairly straightforward to make an Enchanted Item that temporarily replaces those skills for a particular skill check.  In some ways, that might make more thematic sense, since the knowledge in the book isn't necessarily dependent on the knowledge of the reader.  You could also make the book usable by anyone, which would allow fellow teammates to still look up answers when your character is unavailable (even if their Lore/Scholarship skills are terrible).

Power 6 Enchanted Item:
1/day, allows user to make a Legendary (+6) Knowledge skill check (Lore or Scholarship, but it must be a knowledge-based skill check)
- Add 1 to the Power Level to let anyone use it (I may have this number wrong...)
- Add 1 to the Power Level to use it more than once a day

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DFRPG / Re: Non-Standard Settings?
« on: April 28, 2011, 06:56:43 PM »
New forum member here, and I was just curious: has anyone used the DFRPG outside of the Dresden Files setting? How well did that work for you?

I ask because I'm planning the same thing, and would appreciate some examples. Especially since the well of inspiration is getting a mite dry.

I ran a no-prep session of DFRPG a few weeks ago.  I basically skipped city creation and used the quick-start character rules (pick a name and a pinnacle skill, then assign skills and powers as they come up in play).

Plot and universe was established by asking questions as the story went along.  As a result, the characters ended up in a sci-fi space adventure, in a universe primarily based on organic tech (similar to Farscape) with some cybertechnology thrown in as well.  The PCs were space couriers who had lost their original fleet of ships to mutiny.  During the course of the first session, they:
  • Nearly had their cargo hijacked by a previous employee (one of the mutinous captains)
  • Fed and befriended some orphans in a bizarre and awesomely unnecessary ploy to avoid suspicion
  • Delivered their cargo only to discover it was actually a bomb that destroyed a city-skyscraper full of hundreds of thousands of people
  • Got consripted/blackmailed by a mysterious (Amanda Waller-inspired) woman into finding out who was responsible for delivering the bomb
  • Tracked down the squid-faced guy who hired them, only to have him get shot before they could get any information out of him
  • Got blamed for squid-face's death by his shark-faced cousin, the interplanetary ganster, and then killed some of his men while escaping

Haven't had a chance to play a second session, but the first one went pretty well, all things considered.  DFRPG is a good, stream-lined system for making stuff up on the fly.  None of the NPCs were statted up ahead of time - I was able to decide on the fly what approximate skill levels they should have.  We were also able to come up with some decent Powers on-the-fly.  The captain was a mostly-machine cyborg with a "skill-jack", that allowed him to spend a fate point to swap in different Scholarship specializations.  The engineer was a genetic modification specialist, who could spend fate points to add temporary upgrades/powers to any organic technology (like their ship).  Plus he could survive in the vacuum of space.

I didn't get a chance to run any social conflicts, but we ran a decent space conflict between the PCs ships and three smaller craft trying to steal their cargo.  I basically ran it as a straight conflict with the engineer (+4 Piloting) and NPC gunner (+2 Guns) vs. three enemy pilots (+2 Guns/Piloting).

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DFRPG / Re: [House Rules] A (Slightly) Streamlined Magic System
« on: March 31, 2011, 06:07:36 PM »
Thanks, kamilion,

Assuming you use your optional rules, this isn't a bad system. I can understand the desire to remove the complication of comparing strength version control, then determining Fallout/Backlash, etc. Other than that, there really isn't much change here from the RAW, except for explicitly applying Focus items to Discipline and Specializations to Conviction.

Yeah, I wasn't trying for a complete overhaul - I just wanted to remove as many steps as possible.

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I'm in agreement with others here in that I don't see any reason to change the Block rules to rely soley on Discipline + Focus items. It seems like it's giving spellcasters a stronger ability to set up Blocks than your average individual is going to get, with no real downside.

Honestly, I'm not really happy about my streamlined Block rules, but I can't think of a better system that uses both Discipline and Conviction.  On the other hand, spending a point of mental stress for a powerful Block might be a reasonable tradeoff.

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I'm not sure why you would remove Rote spells - I'm assuming you want there to be the opportunity for casters to fail with every spell.

Not exactly.  I just wasn't sure what would constitute a Rote spell under these guidelines.  If a Rote spell removed the risk of Fallout/Backlash, would there ever be a reason to pick Rotes other than: Attack Spell w/ Focus Item and Attack Spell w/o Focus Item?

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Other thoughts - the compel for Backlash/Fallout gives casters another opportunity for FP gain, not sure that's fair, though the consequences can be... painful. Also, why change Counterspell? Just make it an attack-type action on a spell, Strength vs. Strength, and move on.

The GM wouldn't be forced to compel Backlash/Fallout on every miss.  This just gives them another option to add drama and/or Aspects to a scene.

As for Counterspell, see my "tangential rant" from a few posts back.  Evocation Blocks and Maneuvers can already be dispelled by a regular attack.  The only things left to Counterspell are Thaumaturgy spells (conjured walls of fire, bad luck curses, etc.)  So I thought it made more sense to fight Thaumaturgy with Thaumaturgy.

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Thaumaturgy
I like the idea that it's the build-up that takes time, where-as the actual casting moves quite quickly, thogh I'm not sure that a single exchange is what I would choose. I'm assuming that in addition to tagging/invoking Aspects, you are also including declarations and assessments.

I'm NOT sure that I'm on board with only using Lore, though I can't come up with a solid argument against it. Only having one thing to worry about sure does make like simpler.

Yeah, I'm not sure about this one either.  As you said, I can't think of a particular reason it would break, but it's a pretty big change from the existing rules.

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I don't have any issue with this part. I'm assuming you are still on board with using additional item slots to add to strength or frequency on enchanted items?

Absolutely.

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I wonder if you might be better served sticking with the original rules in general and simply clarifying any ambiguities, such as you did with the Focus Items and Specializations, rather than trying to change them. Have you tried playtesting these rules extensively to see where the biggest changes are?

Not yet.  The next time my group gets together to play DFRPG, we'll try these out (but we don't get together that regularly).  I'll post again when I have actual data to offer!

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DFRPG / Re: Armored giant?
« on: March 31, 2011, 01:52:00 PM »
The -2 rebate is for an item being obvious, not being removable. That is because the greatest advantage powers have over technology is that they are not obvious and thus you cannot know what they are, what they do and what your opponent intends. Take the Swords of the Cross for example - they are a catch for the vast majority of opponents so they can't be easily taken away and their "higher purpose" ensures they cannot be used - unless you try to misuse them yourself first. However, they are swords. If anyone sees you moving around with a sword, what happens? You can't enter most places with a sword or similarly obvious weapon, and most authorities will try to get you if you openly carry one.
The armor does not get a -2 rebate because it can be stolen. It gets -2 rebate because when you wear it, everyone and their mother knows you are wearing a tank and intend to use it. If you don't wear it and a battle starts, you need at least 5 minutes to strap it on (it's full plate armor).

As for the weight of the armor, I was going with how much a tank's armor actually weighed in real life.

Hmm... I'm not sure about this reasoning.  Yes, if people see you walking around with a tank, they are going to treat you differently... on the other hand, if people see you walking around as a giant, they are already going to treat you differently.  I'm going to be honest with you - I don't think I'd treat a giant wearing tank armor any differently than I'd treat a regular, unarmored giant.

On the other hand, the fact that it takes a long time to put on is valid, but only if you expect that to come up during play.

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DFRPG / Re: [House Rules] A (Slightly) Streamlined Magic System
« on: March 25, 2011, 06:44:42 PM »
I think you were misunderstanding my example.  You're thinking of a shield style block.  I am talking about a magical obstacle.  For instance, think.... a huge, hot, roaring flame blocking a doorway.  6 shift block that will last for... 6 rounds.  Just blasting that obstacle with an evocation will not get rid of it.  It hast o be counterspelled. 

Hmm... I don't have the book handy, but I didn't think there was any distinction between Blocks.  If I try to Block with Skills (Fists), Evocation (Shields), or Scenery (Hide Behind a Door), once the Block strength is overcome, doesn't the Block go away?  At a minimum, I thought the rules for Blocking in Evocation are pretty clear about that - regardless of what type of Block you're creating (shield/grapple/wall/etc.), it goes away once someone overcomes it.

That sounds more complicated to me than the RAW... lol.

- There's a Wall of Fire (Block:6) in front of you.
- I try to Counterspell it.
- Roll Lore + Focus Items.  Your target is 6.

That's complicated?

(As a minor tangential rant, I always hated the fact that Counterspelling was linked to Evocation.  That limits your maximum Counterspelling strength to, what, 10-12 shifts?  It's fairly easy to cast a spell tougher than that using Thaumaturgy.  And I have no idea if you're allowed to Counterspell using Thaumaturgy, since it's only described in the Evocation section.)

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DFRPG / Re: [House Rules] A (Slightly) Streamlined Magic System
« on: March 25, 2011, 06:35:04 PM »
What this does is push conviction up the totem pole of wizard skills, so that choosing your pinnacle wizard skills is harder.  Also, you want all three as high as possible, which is one of the real weaknesses of wizards: they usually want three pinnacle skills (Discipline, Lore, Conviction) that have sort limited utility in other situations.  Then, if you want to be a fighting wizard, you have to squeeze in athletics and alertness and ...  But, with the removal of block power being based on your conviction, a wizard really only 'needs' a conviction of 3 for the 4 mental stress boxes.  That leaves him more skill options than a stock wizard.

Hmm...  I would agree with your description of how Wizards currently choose their skills.  I'm not convinced that having three pinnacle skills is an absolute requirement for Wizards to be interesting.

Consider this: Under the current rules, it is difficult to create a High Conviction, Low Discipline Wizard.  That character has access to big shifts of power, but can't control it without spending Fate points or tagging Aspects.  So most of the time they would have to settle for weaker spells.  The Houseruled Wizard could pull off a High Conviction, Low Discipline Wizard a bit better, since screwing up a spell would earn them a Fate point (which they could use on future spells).

I guess my point is, while I acknowledge that these rules would change the baseline for what skill levels a Wizard needs, I don't see why that is necessarily a bad thing (or a good thing, really... I see it as a neutral thing).  From an optimization standpoint, Discipline is more important than Conviction, but so what?

And, of course, a Wizard with Conviction 5 could blow up two zones in one exchange, rather than just one, which is kind of cool. :)

Anyway, let me ask some practical questions:
1) Would it help if there were more options for "Spell Power"?  Currently, we have two options (Reduce Power by 2/zone, Reduce Power by 2/exchange).  What about adding more options?
- Reduce Power by 3 to add a Maneuver
- Reduce Power by 2 to move the target one zone

2) Would it help if we used Spell Power (Conviction + Specialization) to add duration to a Block?
- Evocation Blocks last Spell Power/2 exchanges

Both of those options might make extra Conviction more interesting.  What do you think?

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DFRPG / Re: [House Rules] A (Slightly) Streamlined Magic System
« on: March 24, 2011, 08:20:47 PM »
Oh, and by the way, I really appreciate the feedback.  I may be disagreeing with a lot of your arguments, but it's really helping me to figure out exactly what the implications of these rules are, and who they would and would not work for.  So thanks!

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DFRPG / Re: [House Rules] A (Slightly) Streamlined Magic System
« on: March 24, 2011, 08:18:47 PM »
You're right - it was 19.  The point is that a wizard using RAW can easily add 5 shifts of power to an attack.  I used a perfect roll just for the sake of example.  In reality, it wouldn't be hard to control that amount of power for a wizard who is tagging consequences, NVGs, or using fate points.

Okay, the difference between a 19 shift attack and a 16 shift attack doesn't seem that huge to me, but I'll grant the distinction.  A regular wizard could easily add 5 shifts of power, if they're willing to take a minor consequence and commit to tagging/invoking aspects.  (I admit I can't figure out what NVGs are...)  A house ruled Wizard could only add 2 shifts, if they're willing to take a minor consequence, but they won't have to commit to tagging/invoking aspects.

So that's a legitimate issue.  Do those three shifts really make a difference?

Nope.  It's considered a counterspell - and counterspells have to match the original spell power-for-power.

That is... not at all how I read Evocation Blocks.  They certainly can be destroyed using Counterspells, but they could just as easily be destroyed by using bullets, an incredibly strong kick, or a strong Evocation attack.  The attack would still be weakened by the strength of the Block, but the Block would get destroyed in the process.  Do you believe that if a wizard threw a Weapon:4 fireball at a Strength:5 Block, the attack would be negated, regardless of how many shifts were gathered on the targeting roll?

Also note that, if something really needs to be counterspelled, the houserules treat that as Thaumaturgy.  And houseruled Thaumaturgy can increase Spell Power by tagging/invoking or by taking a consequence.  So a Wizard with +3 Lore could counterspell up to a Block:7 in a single exchange (although most likely they would have to tag/invoke in order to do it successfully).

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