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Messages - solbergb

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76
DFRPG / Re: Speedster?
« on: August 05, 2014, 09:01:15 PM »
The letter of the law matters.

"Never Swim Against The Currents of Time"

If all you're doing is traveling forward through time at a different rate than everybody else, but in the same direction, I suspect you're fine. It's when you want to swim AGAINST the stream of time (ie go back in time and meddle) that you get into trouble. 

Whether all wardens will see it that way depends on your trouble I suspect :)

77
Actually I routinely stat up my casters with rotes that are higher than my conviction.

What are the higher stress boxes on my character sheet for anyway?  Also if you're going to take a consequence for casting a spell anyway, whether it's two stress or four why not get the full benefit of it?    So yeah, if I have a lore of three+, I'll usually have a 1 stress, 2 stress and 4 stress rote, likely using focus items to get enough discipline to control the 2 or 4 stress rotes (sometimes I just accept I'll be invoking an aspect or having backlash/fallout to control the rote if high enough discipline isn't in the cards)

So instead of getting, say, four rotes with 6 shifts each that I can easily control, I'll have a 6 shift, a 7 shift and a 9 shift rote that take more stress to activate, but make better use of my stress box resources (after 3 spells, I'm taking a consequence anyway to get the 4th, and if I'm gonna take a consequence I might as well get a 7 or 9 shift effect instead of a 6 shift one....)

But that's just the spell track.  If I'm looking at a warden type, somebody who expects to get into fights, that person is going to have a way of laying down the hurt with no spell at all (weapons, guns, something) or he's going to have enchanted items that accomplish the same thing with enough uses to get me through a hard battle (see Dresden's ring, his potions, his belt buckle in one adventure, an animated electrical cord+plug in another etc).    He might also have social skills, to get advantage through banter (Dresden's constantly using intimidate in fights to piss people off instead of just blasting them) and if none of that seems like enough, most wizards with thaum can spend a few minutes generating several spells that give them other advantages the next time they get into a fight in a day when they've been filling their consequences up.

Of course I'm willing to play 1 conviction spellcasters, spellcasters with zero lore skills, etc.  My generic wizard though is going to be able to routinely bust out 7-9 attack roll/7 shift area and single target attacks/maneuvers/blocks/etc (I tend to use extra shifts from high mental stress attacks on areas) in their specialty and a little less in areas they aren't as good at (generally similar power, less accuracy).   That's the benchmark you're looking at without any points spent in refinement, and at least 30 skill points to play with.  It's a measure nobody but a caster can manage, not even with military explosives..you're looking at more like what a fully crewed APC might bring to the table, maybe even a main battle tank.

Yeah, I can only do 3 of those a fight, 4 with short term consequences, 5 if my conviction is 5 for some reason.  More if I have sponsored magic.  If you can't win a fight with those, you should probably be thinking about running away or conceding anyway.  If you're not sure, use your non-spell options and keep your powder dry.

78
DFRPG / Re: Speedster?
« on: August 05, 2014, 07:26:26 PM »
If you want to worry about dark side, I think a focused practitioner has a lot going for it, because of the laws of magic.  If you don't want him to be a typical "lore/discipline/conviction" guy you can use stunts to shift key skill trappings around (it's easier if you stick with Channeling or Rituals, rather than trying to do both).  There's plenty of precedent for someone with latent talents getting a power boost by being near a big magical event.   (eg, some college student who got too close to the Darkhallow having talents awakened either for necromancy or its opposite)

Consider a speedster whose power is based on having time go slower around him, rather than kinetomancy.  You avoid all the issues of tearing yourself apart (the world is slow around you, rather than you being super fast) and what you can do is different (you don't cause sonic booms even if you travel objectively at speed of sound, but your ability to communicate is challenged...everyone speaks so sloooww, and you speak really fast and you can probably search a room really quickly without causing a vortex of wind to blow everything around).

Such a speedster will be right on the edge of the time travel Law, might even have Lawbreaker feats, and if you have rituals you're likely to be able to actually capable of time travel, maybe even opening time-travel "ways" for others even if you don't for lawbreaking reasons.

Even a typical "flash" type build has risks of first law violations (you hit someone too hard, or your slipstream-fallout causes property damage to the point where somebody dies).  Some kind of aspect indicating you're addicted to speed could work nicely with a feeding dependency to encourage you to use your powers and then pay for it later.

By contrast "Emissary" and "I'm a creature of the never never" type concepts tend to be less conflicted.  You behave according to your nature, or that of your boss...the problem is not as personal.

Mechanically I'd do the speed-addicted Kinetomancer as a channeler (area punches/maneuvers, rapid-fire punches for high shift single attacks, blocks where you catch all the bullets/knives/block punches within a zone, etc with options on sonic booms, slipstreams and similar effects where appropriate or for fallout) and the chronomancer/lawbreaker as a ritualist (magic items or potions for combat-speed effects, normal rituals to let you do things like search an entire building in 15 minutes or read an entire library in a day).  Frankly the speed-addicted kinetomancer sounds more like a typical superhero of the two examples, but there are some more cerebral superheroes out there, and a contrast between his greater power (slow rituals) and the desire to just go "fight crime" and do flashy hero things might also be entertaining...high concept vs trouble kind of stuff.

79
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 07:07:23 PM »
In theory yes, but once the compel is accepted, you don't really need to focus on it at all anymore. The shifter just won't be able to shift for as long as was agreed upon in the compel.

Unless they spend a fate point to ignore the compel.

That's my problem with the maneuver/compel approach.  It takes things out of the realm of skill vs skill and action vs action and into the realm of "who has the most fate points".  Fate points help a lot against blocks, but they're not "I win" buttons by themselves just because of the mechanics of how the maneuver was set up.

Now actually, compels don't always have a scenewide duration.  If the condition that caused the compel is removed, the compel is removed.    If you're holding off a vampire with a ray of sunlight caused by tearing away a curtain, somebody could remove that aspect from the scene by moving something in front of the window or spraypainting it black or similar.

The difficulty number for removing an aspect is the roll you used to establish it...same as a block.  But something like taking a curtain down is clearly a maneuver, it establishes a significant change to the environment.   Holding off a vampire with a cross and conviction, by contrast is a block.  It takes continuous action to sustain, and if you're forced to take some other action it goes away, and can be destroyed by attacking YOU, not attacking an aspect on the scene.

Which action is which is a matter of flavor of how you establish the maneuver/block, not the sort of action you're trying to prevent.  That then establishes what remedies are possible beyond overcoming it with an appropriate skill (raw fate point outspending to not be compelled at all vs a third party doing something unrelated to the block to interfere with your ability to maintain the block)

I do like "shifting blocked" as a consequence option to an attack.  We've certainly seen that with Harry sometimes with respect to his own magical talents, being too concussed to focus on a spell or inflicting it on himself when overdoing magic with the "super caffeine" potion.  But the victim of the attack has to agree to that consequence, ditto with conceding.  Taken out...oh yeah.  They're allowed to completely transform you (ie kill you) with any means at their narrative disposal, so all sorts of gruesome possibilities are on the table.  (can't magically block shapeshift without magic, can't drug you into being unable to shift without drugs, etc)

80
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 06:42:21 PM »
Fair enough.  I think it's a distinction without a difference in most cases.

Overcoming a maneuver compel requires the same number of shifts as overcoming a block, but it's easier to use the fate economy while it is in place.   I think a block simulates active suppression better than a maneuver, because of the ongoing attention required to keep it up (a hail of bullets as covering fire preventing a return shot requires that you keep shooting.  Preventing an action by shooting the gun out of the other guy's hand requires only one bullet, one action but the "disarmed" aspect is now on the scene for manipulation in all sorts of ways that might cause unintended consequences)

If I'm playing DFRPG rather than Fate Core, and thus have Maneuvers, Assessments, Declarations and Blocks (which are all just "attack for advantage" that set up aspects with obstacle-difficulty to remove or overcome based on success shifts in Fate Core) I'd be inclined to allow them all to be used whenever it makes narrative sense, rather than artificially restrict some of them to what a maneuver can do.

However if the table/GM didn't agree with me, well, since Maneuver/compel works pretty well to cover all of the above, it's not worth arguing about if they want the definition to be very narrow.

81
DFRPG / Re: Speedster?
« on: August 05, 2014, 06:21:38 PM »
I've played with this quite a bit for theoretical builds.  I'll likely want to try one of these ideas someday.

Obviously SU speed, or mythic in a high refresh game.

Stunts like "too fast to react" (athletics for stealth Ambush trapping) or "plenty of time to react" (athletics instead of alertness to spot an ambush) can add a lot to the flavor.

If you're really high end (like DC's flash character, rather than somebody who's just very fast), consider thematic Channeling (Super Speed Tricks) and your focus item might be something like the Flash Suit (you can't go to extreme super speed tricks without protection).   A "flash suit" could instead be an item of power, perhaps provided to keep your super speed from tearing you apart (maybe you can only do inhuman speed+stunts without it), provided by a friendly magical patron.  The Star Labs scientist on the 1990s TV show provided the Flash Suit for that reason.

Feeding dependency would fit the TV show pretty well, when Barry Allen used his powers much he would literally starve unless he had a bunch of food on hand to devour.    Some kind of recovery power tied to a feeding dependency would also make sense (you heal fast, if you can rest/eat).   

Power.....

Scion of Hermes or similar speed oriented entity could work.  There are probably some messenger angels that might apply too, or diabolic influences for that matter.  Or you could just go the Focused Practitioner route, you're a mortal whose magic is just all about moving yourself around quickly and safely.

Again, just stealing ideas from the 1990s TV show, Barry Allen is a mundane who had a magical accident, then hooked up with a white court wizard who provided a suit that helped him control his power, in exchange for favors/future services, plus lore stuff to let him know important things like he could kill himself with hunger if he overdid things.

A changeling is possible but a super-speedster is likely to have gone all the way over to Fey side.  A Fey who got fascinated by superheroes might be kind of fun.   Dewdrop faeries are REALLY fast.  What if one of them figured out how to make a human sized body out of ectoplasm, but kept the speed?  (too heavy to fly, but still super fast).   (shapeshift, where your shifted form has dim size/flight, your "human" form is an ectoplasmic exoskeleton, maybe the costume hides how it isn't a very good copy of a human....).   


82
Stress also includes attacks that hit but aren't important to the narrative ever again.

Eg, you get knocked around, bruised and a bit of road-rash on the gravel.   Nowhere else in the book is it mentioned beyond saying how nice a bath feels, or included in a litany of other stuff being treated.   Stress, not consequences.

The same attack results a later situation where your scabs open and you bleed in a later conflict, causing either a bad result (bleeding on your new tux in a social situation) or a good one (your buddies track you by your blood trail and show up in the nick of time).  Consequence, not Stress, even though the injury might be narrated the same way.  In one case, the injury is important in a later scene, so it must have been an aspect that could be compelled or invoked.

Hell, in some situations, having your clothes torn up in a fight is more important than having an arm break given what's likely to happen next.  Mild social consequences might be something to negotiate for, instead of a physical injury.  Can't begin recovery until you have a chance to repair the clothes.  Craft or Resources or maybe deceit/glamor would be what you heal with, instead of Scholarship/medicine.

83
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 05:37:42 PM »
Ok, more geeking on using "intimidate to move".

You can move one zone if you have no obstacles to moving, with -1 to any other action you take.

Rapport draws a crowd determined to stop you from moving (reasons vary.   shifts to overcome based on rapport outcome)

Athletics has the sprint trapping, which lets you take a sprint action to bypass obstacles (sprint vs rapport to set up block).  Sprint just lets you go by, doesn't let you destroy the crowd.  No -1, because sprint lets you move anyway.

Might has the "exert force on others" trapping.  With Might-1 you can push through the crowd and still move if you get enough shifts.  The crowd will still be there, it'll close in behind you.  If you want to disperse the crowd violently using your strength, you probably need to use Fists, with +1 if your might is better than fists and -1 for supplemental action.  You're hurting people and tossing them out of your way or trampling them instead of just pushing through them.  GM might rule that extra shifts in damage from super strength or claws might contribute to the overall score, but give you social stress equal to the extra shifts or something to indicate the extra violence.    It's the same reasoning a GM has to use when deciding if a high fists roll can get you through a wall....sometimes strength and claws will help a lot, sometimes it's the precision of the fists alone that matter.

Intimidate could go two ways.  Using the Brush Off trapping people move out of your way, so they're not an obstacle....for you, if you roll intimidate-1 you can move a zone.  Using intimidate as a social attack, you can actually disperse the crowd for everybody, not just you, again with intimidate-1 if you want to move in the same round.  Weaponized fear attacks would add shifts to outcome, which might help in dispersing the crowd if GM thinks it should.

84
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 05:22:40 PM »

Block don't block skills.  They block actions.   Alertness/investigate is an assessment action which requires a roll and, in most cases, an action.  So it fits the rule-set of blocking an "attack/maneuver/block/move"

An assessment action is from a nitpicking standpoint distinct from a combat maneuver, although mechanically they're very similar (again, Fate Core eliminated this distinction..DFRPG assessments are Overcome actions or Maneuver actions depending on the specifics).

Alertness isn't always assessment.  A primary use for Veils is to replace the Stealth Ambush trapping, which takes away much of a target's ability to defend themselves.   in a way, a Veil IS a block against defense, because it's a block against any action that requires knowing where you are, which makes it extra scary.



85
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 05:13:22 PM »
Blocking a block....

You want your friends to be able to run away.
You are facing Harry Dresden, who is known to put up force walls, or sheets of flame, and don't want to him to do that.

You could explicitly set up a counterspell against that type of magic if that's your thing, or you could shower Harry with gunfire, forcing him to protect himself with his shield spell instead of doing anything to prevent escape, or you could flood the escape path with running water by aiming your fire hose on the escape path (weapons?  Guns?)

It seems like an awfully specific action.  But blocks do tend to be that way.  It's deeply important to stop one specific option from happening, so you devote your action to eliminating that possibility, or at least making it very hard.  Harry must choose another action (eg, blasting you with Fuego or his pistol instead of using force or fire to set up a barrier) or try to overcome the block (drawing on his conviction and spending a fate point to invoke "The Building was on fire and it wasn't my fault" Harry gets a sheet of flame going anyway, blowing past the attempt to suppress his magic )

That's where it gets interesting.  I might be inclined to allow a wizard defending against Harry to set up his block as armor instead of a flat number, to weaken the force wall/sheet of flame regardless of how many shifts Harry put into it, instead of trying to block it entirely.  That might be a better way to simulate the fire hose approach too.

86
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 05:00:42 PM »


For blocking things that aren't measured in shifts - such as most shapeshifting - you'll want a compel.

Um...the target roll to remove an aspect placed on you (to overcome the compel) is measured in shifts.  Just like a block. 
And like a block, any skill that makes sense can apply.



I'll say it again.  Blocks go against ACTIONS not SKILLS.  There is no "block 6 vs your athletics of 1".  There is only "That block 6 against movement is too big to beat with athletics  sprint action".

Athletics is required to go more than one zone, or to defeat an obstacle that affects you.   If you can fly, a wall has no effect and you don't need athletics.  The concept that you need to break the obstacle to defeat a block that DOES affect you, in absence of wasting your entire action on a sprint is valid.

You have two choices.  You can AVOID an obstacle (sprint action to climb, jump, dodge it for zone obstacles vs movement set up with a block), you can IGNORE a block (fly over the wall), or you can DESTROY the block (blow a hole in the wall via might, evocation, etc).  The latter action removes the block, even within the same exchange for any allies you might have.

Removing a crowd based barrier established by a rapport block with intimidate is the latter action.  Dodging through a crowd is using the sprint action to bypass a crowd-based barrier.   Dropping a bomb in the crowd is using an attack to destroy the crowd-based barrier.


87
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 04:59:25 PM »
Given that in all the Fate systems, including DFRPG the idea is to expand player narrative options, not restrict them, I'd say yes, a counterexample against the four stated actions is a pretty compelling argument, especially since it is easy to imagine blocks against other actions not included on the list of four.

Really, anywhere you can imagine a maneuver that is invoked for effect, you can imagine a block.  The primary mechanical difference is a block requires constant use of your actions, where a maneuver establishes an aspect that fate points can be used to invoke or compel regardless of skill die rolls, but don't require actions after you set them up.


88
DFRPG / Re: Full Defense + Blocks
« on: August 05, 2014, 04:50:05 PM »
Should doing a Full Defense add the +2 to defensive blocks? Or should it just be defensive rolls?

No.  Block difficulty is established by the person setting up the block.  It requires taking an action that is not full defense to set it up.

Full defense is a bonus to all defense rolls made until the next exchange.  It does not seem to be typed but the skill needs a defense trapping (athletics, fists, weapons, rapport, discipline, sometimes other skills and stunts can mix it up).  There are no defense rolls with blocks.  The defense outcome = block strength.

Magical blocks can be set up as armor instead of a block.  Armor-type blocks of course do stack with full defense (Dresden with his armor 3 duster on still removes 3 shifts from an attack that hits in spite of his full defense, as long as it is a physical attack, not social or mental)

89
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 04:47:17 PM »
One more response on the "you can only block attack, defense, maneuver, movement" is a Veil doesn't block any of those.  It is explicitly a block against Alertness and Investigate, which is none of the above. 

90
DFRPG / Re: Blocks versus Shapeshifters
« on: August 05, 2014, 04:41:10 PM »
First response on nitpick about the four action types to be blocked noted in prior post.


Beyond that, the more important point I've actually been addressing for most of my involvement in this thread is your insistence that only certain skills might be appropriate to overcome a particular block, while implying that those rolls might not line up directly with the rolls the block itself affects.


I am sorry I gave that impression.  That is not what I'm saying.

Any skill can establish a block against any action if it makes sense.   Defense isn't an action, it is the difficulty to take certain actions, and is likely why it's excluded from blocking...it's meaningless to block defense.   (you can block perception which prevents a defense higher than mediocre, but that's a different issue)

The nature of that block determines which skills can destroy the block, which skills can overcome it for you without destroying it, and which skills/powers/aspects might render the block ineffective.

Without the details of the situation you can't set up a block, or define how it can be overcome.  Each block is 100% situational.

edit....maneuver for effect and invoke is mechanically identical to a block, which is one reason Fate Core eliminated the block mechanic entirely.  The primary difference in DFRPG is that a block uses the action economy rather than the fate point economy (you can't invoke or compel a block) and has the potential to affect more than one target - a scene aspect isn't the same as a zonewide block, not exactly.


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