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Messages - Mira

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6361
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 29, 2019, 06:00:48 PM »
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I genuinely do not understand how people would want to be in his head for a 30 page story.

I agree, unless perhaps to hear what Andriel is whispering in his ear and what Andriel is hearing as he spies about..

6362
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    However Harry knew perfectly well it was a trap, as did Michael and Sanya..  Harry countered with a trap of his own, that is why he was willing to risk a Holy Sword to rescue Ivy....


Not at the point in the book which I'm discussing.

But it helps with context... 

6363
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 29, 2019, 11:14:39 AM »
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2.  I'm sure Jim could create a situation where Nicodemus is vulnerable.  It might even be a way to demonstrate; if only in a small way, how the Grail can be used as a weapon.   

He has already shown that through Tessa..  I also think sacrificing Deidre will have lasting effects, made him very vulnerable...   Also unless Michael is wrong, while it is a thing of power the Grail is a force for good..

6364
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 28, 2019, 09:29:03 PM »
When Nic wins without qualification, it's things like the Black Plague.

Marcone, we're able to root for and read his short story because as bad a guy as he is, he's up against something worse.

I don't want to read a story about Nicodemus successfully murdering innocents by the truck load to fuel his own selfish agenda and -- in all likelihood -- also murdering good people like the Knights trying to stop him.

If I wanted to read that kind of thing I'd have stuck with Game of Thrones.

Amen...

6365
DF Spoilers / Re: Who dies in Peace Talks
« on: June 28, 2019, 05:00:42 PM »
Yes. This could mean, she has died before Christmas. Or they broke up... But it doesn't necessarily mean she will die in Peace Talks. There could be another book between. Peace Talks is in summer. A lot can happen in half a year.

Very true, but honestly if she is indeed the one who is doomed to die, do you really think it will happen off page? :o

6366
DF Spoilers / Re: Who dies in Peace Talks
« on: June 28, 2019, 03:24:13 PM »
That is possible, didn't think of that. After reading the Christmas Story, I was no longer completely convinced that Karrin will die in Peace Talks, because Harry wasn't acting like that had happened. But I thought of Karrin's father. Maybe the Murphy's funeral comment refered to his funeral. Maybe something significant happened there. Writing about Murphy's funeral could mean, that Karrin tells Harry about it. And they realize, someone said something or did something that explains what happened later. She only now understands.

Murphy hasn't  been mentioned at all since Skin Game...  It could mean nothing, she is recovering Harry is preoccupied with Maggie...  But then again,  it is odd given the implied direction for them at the end of Skin Game...   We've seen avoidance in Harry before when he is grieving, that could be why she isn't mentioned at all, nor was she a part of Christmas...  Very odd given how close Harry and her are, I know lots of plausible reasons for her not being there have been mentioned, but you'd think that a gift from her would carry at least as much weight as one from Mab... But no gift from "Aunt Karrin" was mentioned..

6367
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What I am saying is that, while it makes perfect sense that Michael would refuse Harry's second request, it makes less sense that he would refuse Harry's first request. I believe that the reason that Micheal does so is his concern that Harry might be leading the Knights into a trap.

However Harry knew perfectly well it was a trap, as did Michael and Sanya..  Harry countered with a trap of his own, that is why he was willing to risk a Holy Sword to rescue Ivy....

6368
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 28, 2019, 02:33:09 PM »
We've seen a short story from Marcone's point of view so I wouldn't mind seeing one from Nic's POV.  However, I think it would have to take place after the events of Skin Game.  Nicodemus is on his own and fighting off whoever Marcone sends after him.  We see a hunted Nicodemus turn the tables on his pursuers and decide he had become too reliant on Deirdre, and too reliant on other denarians like his unpredictable ex-wife, and in the end Harry and Michael had done him a favor; by being alone and without allies they helped Nic sharpen his wits and skills.  Near the end of Skin Game, Nicodemus offered one of the coins to Goodman Grey.  At the end of the short story we could see Nicodemus decide he has regained his confidence and decide now is the time to take on a new disciple and ally.  We see him offer the coin which he still had with him, but we don't see who he offers it to.   

  Actually I think things are being set up for Nic to change sides because he is increasingly being isolated..  He is losing out as the leader of the Denarians,  however for him it isn't just about giving up coin and noose, if he does those things he turns to dust..

You are not going to see a total win for Nic, because that has a huge ripple effect of the Fallen winning over Heaven...  Not saying it couldn't happen, but not likely..

We have yet to see the aftermath for Murphy after her losing encounter with Nic..  Not just the physical, but the emotional as well..  If ultimately that turns her away from Harry for example, that could be a huge win for Nic...   If she is more physically limited than anticipated she may be tempted to take up a coin thinking she can handle it...  Unlikely, true, but then again I don't think the Murphy/Lasciel dynamic of Harry's nightmare/wet dreams was fully played out in Skin Game satisfactorily...  As in Hannah/Lasciel just didn't have the same impact as ultimately a Murphy/Lasciel would verses Harry.   It could be foreshadowing of things to come.

6369
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 28, 2019, 03:48:47 AM »
Nic is foiled each time.  It works to weaken him as an antagonist.  I’d like to see what he’s like when he wins.
Sort of, but the Denarians go on...  We know what he is like when he wins... Do you not remember the scene where he wiped the frozen cement with Murphy?  How he whispered sweet nothings in her ear as he did it?  Stuff that long term will make her question everything she has ever stood for?  How he manipulated her so skillfully into going where she and he wanted to go, resulting in a broken Holy Sword?  Yeah, long term it got set right, but if you want to see how it looks when Nic wins reread those passages in Skin Game..

6370
No, I think that was actually the very best thing (for Michael) that could have happened.

His injuries, in the final analysis, free him from being a Knight. They let him be home with his family, let him build houses (for which he evidently has a passion).  Yeah... cane.  So what?
 Occasional twinges of pain?  Not like the Knighting lifestyle is exactly pain-free (usually more than "twinges").

He'd pick up the sword again in a heartbeat, if that's what he'd be called to; but he's he's not:  he's being given the reward of the life & family he always wanted.

I believe Jim said that was Michael's happy ending..

6371
DF Spoilers / Re: Denarian Short Story
« on: June 27, 2019, 09:38:51 PM »
We’ve seen Dresden beat Nicodemus three times.  It makes Nic and the Denarians seem somewhat less than threatening.  Would anyone else be interested in reading short story where the Denarians win?

Well, they don't exactly lose either.....

6372
Wouldn't you help a guy who was on your front sidewalk, torturing someone, no matter what the reason? 

I wasn't talking about Nic's choices.  I was talking about Marcone's.  He's where he's at in the book because of a choice he made.  Two choices actually.  He chose to save Harry in the alley behind Bock's Books.  And he chose to be a free holding Lord.  The first drew the animus of Titania, the second made him fair game in the supernatural world.

He reasons for saving Harry did not come not from the goodness of his heart either..  He wanted an in to the supernatural world and a body guard...  The man is a crime lord, lots of people suffer because he is who he is...  Being rescued by Holy Knights hasn't changed that.

6373
DF Spoilers / Re: Who dies in Peace Talks
« on: June 27, 2019, 06:26:30 PM »


Why do you think Murphy is safe until "Body Slam"?   Do you have inside information?  Though I
tend to agree our collective legs were being pulled by Jim in regards to writing about her funeral...

6374
Why would you think that?  The Knight's aren't responsible for anyone's choices.  This is repeated over and over again.  Harry himself is the obvious example.

Exactly,  they are there essentially to put a check on the Fallen and restore if they can the free choice of the one who held the coin..  They cannot or are not supposed to go beyond that.. That doesn't mean in a fight they cannot kill a coin holder who won't surrender, or that they cannot fight evil or aid in that fight..  But if the coin holder surrenders his or her coin, their hands are tied, they can neither save nor condemn the the soul of former holder of the coin...  As so elegantly put, the only one from that point on who can save his or her soul is the former holder of the coin...

6375
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And to relate this back to what I was originally saying: rescuing Marcone would certainly be acting in such a way as to help people do the right thing/reduce the chances of them doing the Wrong thing. It would prevent Marcone from being tortured into taking up a coin, would prevent the Denarians from torturing Marcone, would give the Knights a chance to attempt to convince the Denarians they encountered to give up their coins, would prevent the stability Marcone imposed on the Chicago criminal underworld from falling apart (it's been pointed out that it is far easier for Hell to collect souls when there's mass chaos and destruction), and would prevent Harry lying to Luccio to get the White Council's help (as has been pointed out to me on another thread, Michael quite sincerely believes lying to be Wrong).
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Except Marcone isn't trying to redeem himself in any way, at least not so far..  In my opinion making the trains run on time for the criminal world is hardly doing a service for good...

Yup, Harry lied, which is a sin, he is human..  Michael would also point out that he did it to save a child's life.
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"Acting in such a way as to create a climate which encourages/allows people to do the right thing" seems to be a good summary of the Knights' job. Whether they judge people or not seems immaterial to that.

But it isn't...  They will let a murder go in the case of Cassius, free to murder  again or not, to go unpunished, because it isn't their place to judge him, not their job to try and stop him..  Murphy was unwilling to follow that rule, if she believes someone is guilty, she will judge them so, and either punish them herself or take them somewhere where they can be punished..  Nic knew that that is why he elaborately arranged the fiasco in front of Michael's house in Skin Game then go through the motions of surrender to Murphy, who in turn, judge, tried to punish, and broke a Holy Sword... 

But back to Cassius, in his heart he is a bad guy, he had no intention of changing who he is, he gave up his coin only because he didn't want to be executed by either Michael or Sanya... He didn't stop doing bad things, he wanted another coin so he could do them even better, that is why he attacked Harry and tortured him,  he thought that Harry had taken up Lasciel's coin and he wanted it for himself..  So how did that work out for him and the world around him? 

The original point, the Knight's job is to gather up the coins of the Fallen, to free the souls they enthrall..  Once free, those souls can either go about the business of redeeming themselves, or continue the same corrupt life they lived before minus the aid of the coin, it's pot luck really... Most
of the souls who chose to take up a coin were bad in the first place, that is why they were tempted to do it..  Surrendering a coin to save their own life, doesn't change their hearts...  On the other hand  Sanya did give up his coin because he became disgusted with what he was doing what the coin was helping him to do, he rejected it... That is so rare that Heaven granted him a Holy Sword..

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