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Messages - nadia.skylark

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How is killing someone with magic violating the Laws of Reality more than say, blowing up the building? To me, both seem equally "impossible", if you want to apply, let's call it "atheist" way of thinking (as in, "Magic does not exist!") and equally possible otherwise.

I think I've read somewhere, that it's the "slippery slope", that's a problem, evil (be it killing, or manipulating minds, or other stuff) gets easier, and eventually you find yourself a warlock (like with the guy who was executed early on in "Proven Guilty", or like how Harry explains why messing with people's minds using magic is said slippery slope, also in "Proven Guilty").

The way I understand it is that Laws 1-5 have the slippery slope problem, while Laws 6-7 are the "No! You'll break the universe!" laws.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 10:28:56 PM »
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Michael is also human, not a saint..

True.

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Considering everything, his reaction was very human.  Did he disapprove of what Harry did?  Yes, on no uncertain terms...  However at the same time Michael knows the kind of person Cassius is and what he was and one cannot blame him for enjoying the irony of Harry giving Cassius a quarter for a phone call after he had given up a coin.  He cannot be the judge of either Cassius or Harry for that matter, as a matter of his faith, judgement is for the Almighty, not him... At the same time he cannot be blamed for savoring a little dash of irony.

See, the thing is, when I disapprove of something, I don't laugh about it. Even when it might be funny, I try to avoid laughing because it undermines that disapproval.

To me, Michael laughing indicates that either he doesn't disapprove that much but feels obligated to say something or that he's being hypocritical/does not appear to care that much about Harry.

633
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 08:17:26 PM »
I think it could go either way, really. I prefer Michael as a character to be all right with it, but I acknowledge that it's kind of iffy to assume that.

634
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 05:29:16 PM »
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Hell, Michael and Sanya laugh about it.

He's a Knight and he might genuinely want to see the Denarians repent and be redeemed, but he's still a human and not above being a little glad when an asshole like Cassius gets a very-much-deserved asskicking from someone else.

Exactly. This is why I feel that Michael is reasonably okay with it.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 03:21:28 PM »
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No, he wasn't marginally okay with it..

That's quite possible. However, while I agree that as a Knight he had no direct obligation to interfere, I think that as a decent human being, if he truly thought that it was wrong and unacceptable, he had a moral obligation to try and stop it (rather than stand outside and listen to Cassius' screams)--and he didn't. So...

636
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 04:03:06 AM »
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No, you said the Fallen was powering the Hellfire; I'm positing that the Fallen is not, because it's contained in the coin and therefore incapable of acting directly on or through Harry. That's rather the point of it being in a coin in the first place -- it can't act without something else willing to let it act through it.

Does anyone have a copy of White Night that they can check? I don't have mine with me, but I think I remember something being said about this at the end (Bob saying something about how the shadow had a tiny piece of Lasciel's power that she stopped drawing on when she turned against Lasciel, I think).

637
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Hellfire be used without a Coin?
« on: February 21, 2019, 03:59:00 AM »
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In the Dresdenverse it's reasonable to assume that hell is just another part of the NeverNever the same as Hades.  It's also likely that Harry was channeling energy from hell to create the fire.  He did this with Lash's help.  However could a wizard tap into this energy without a Coin though?  Or is it locked away from anyone using it that isn't allowed access?

This is a really cool concept! The idea of a piece of the Nevernever having magic like a ley line that people can draw on is really facinating.

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Or is the theory all wrong?  Could the hellfire just be the Fallen allowing Harry to tap into their power much like he's able to tap into his own Soul for soulfire?  Jim said that angel's are all soul basically so it could be that the Fallen's hellfire is just energy from a Fallen's life force or whatever they are.

On the other hand, I think this is actually the truth. I know there's a WoJ that hellfire and soulfire are two sides of the same coin, and which one an angel uses is determined by what kind of angel they are.

Maybe it could be both? The Fallen could be boosting their own ability by drawing on the power of the land they settled in (like non-Fallen angels can probably draw on God's power for some things). Maybe this is why use of hellfire smells like brimstone.

638
DF Spoilers / Re: Proven Guilty WAG: Rashid's behind it!
« on: February 21, 2019, 01:45:13 AM »
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When Rashid threatens Harry in Summer Knight it is because of the consequences of Harry taking the easy way out.  Thus showing himself not competent to be a true member of the White Council.  And in Turn Coat Harry risks a civil war within the Council.  And apparently Rashid thought  Harry might be part of the conspiracy to cause it.

Yes. And in Proven Guilty, according to this WAG, Rashid is trying to prevent the destruction of the universe by Outsiders (via making sure that Mab realizes what Nemesis is doing with Maeve).

639
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 21, 2019, 12:55:19 AM »
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Plus, isn't Lash being powered by Harry's power and soul part of the explanation for how she was able to grow and change?

I'm pretty sure Bob tells Harry at the end of White Night that he gave Lash access to his soul by encouraging her to be her own person, which only happened during that book.

On the other hand, we have WoJ saying that Bob didn't actually know what happened, and was only theorizing, so...

640
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: February 21, 2019, 12:51:11 AM »
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Martin probably planned on turning and being the sacrifice.

This.

641
DF Spoilers / Re: Proven Guilty WAG: Rashid's behind it!
« on: February 21, 2019, 12:50:38 AM »
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Accepting that Rashid was responsible for splattercon means accepting that Rashid was willing to sacrifice a number of innocent mortals to push his agenda.  That is if I'm understanding you correctly.  I'm uncertain about that.

We know that he's willing to sacrifice innocents because he told Harry not to fight for Morgan in Turn Coat.

642
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 20, 2019, 08:47:16 PM »
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Michael did make the attempt to stop Harry, but could not convince him to not hurt Cassius.  Which pissed Harry off considerably because he doesn't understand Holy Knights or their purpose..

What you are missing is the context, Michael and company had defeated Cassius, in a ploy to save his ass, Cassius gave up his coin, which he knew would take the Holy Knights out of the fight.  He had hope that his fellow Denarians would still take him back and he'd gain another coin.  Harry saw though this and didn't understand the constraints that Michael has to fight under... If he had tried to continue the fight after Cassius gave up the coin, his Sword would have shattered just as Murphy's had against Nic...  Harry continued to want to take him out, but now the fight was out of Michael's hands, but he did try to talk Harry out of injuring Cassius, Sanya, not so much..

I understand the context: that's why my assumption is that Michael is at least marginally okay with the torture, even though his job means that he can't acknowledge it. 

Did Michael try to talk Harry out of it? I was under the impression that he explained why he couldn't do anything, not that he was trying to convince Harry not to do anything.

643
I think during Skin Game Harry realizes that the way you shapeshift into a larger form is by drawing matter from the Nevernever, and I think there's a WoJ that the way you shapeshift into something smaller is by sending some of your mass to the Nevernever.

644
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Michael lie?
« on: February 20, 2019, 03:10:13 PM »
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Dependency,  the more the potential host uses it, the greater the influence which eventually leads to the acceptance of the coin which is the goal of the shadow.  Consider, on one level Harry was resisting Lasciel, but at the same time over time he became more and more dependent upon the use of things like hellfire, and he wasn't aware of how it was changing him.... It took Murphy's sit down and the incident with Molly and the fireball for him to realize how the shadow was changing him.

Once again, this advances the shadow's goals, but it doesn't seem to strengthen the shadow itself. An analogy would be the Alphas deciding to work with Harry: It makes Harry more effective at accomplishing his goals, but it doesn't make him able to, for example, lift more weight or throw spells harder, and he's not going to pop out of existence spontaneously if all his allies suddenly stop working with him (the fact that he'll probably get killed is beside the point).

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The Knights have a narrow lane with in to work, like for angels the rules are very strict.  The mission  is enable redemption by getting the Denarian they are fighting to give up their coins, or kill them in the process.. However once the coin is given up, it is out of their hands.  That is why they refused to
mess with Cassius once he gave up his coin... Free will, it didn't matter what Cassius had done or was, without the coin he now had a chance to live the rest of his life redeeming himself ultimately or not, it was out of their hands.

It can't be that narrow. Redeeming Denarians may be their primary purpose, but Michael has fought humans summoning non-Fallen demons, Hobs, and Outsiders at least. Based on what Michael said about why he couldn't help Hannah at the Gate of Fire, I'd assume that part of their job is also the protection of the innocent.

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That is the "catch 22" of free will, Harry's choice to punish and seek revenge over Cassius..  That isn't the job of a Knight, that is for the Almighty, what Cassius chose to do from there on out was his..

True. But I don't think free will would have prevented Michael from trying to convince Harry not to/stop him from torturing Cassius, and if Michael truly believed that it was genuinely Wrong, as opposed to techically-wrong-but-actually-not, then he should have made the attempt.

Now, I don't actually believe he did think it was Wrong, under the circumstances, just like I believe that he didn't think it was Wrong to lie to Harry in service of saving his soul from being corrupted by the Fallen. 

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DF Spoilers / Re: Proven Guilty WAG: Rashid's behind it!
« on: February 20, 2019, 06:02:39 AM »
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Mab said that she thought Molly would be more suited for Summer.  Seems counter to the idea that she was told by a trusted source she would become the Winter Lady.

A few explanations for this:

1) Mab was so distracted by the Maeve thing that she forgot precisely what was said about Molly.

2) Mab thought that long-term exposure to Harry Dresden would make her less logical/rational and more emotional--summer traits.

3) Rashid implied that Molly would be a Lady, and Mab put it together with the Nemesis thing and assumed that she would be the Winter Lady--an assumption that fell apart when she was forced to confront the fact that Maeve was Infected.

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