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436
My favourite reference in Cold Days is Bob saying Harry will go to the special hell. Which is a quote from Firefly.

"If you take sexual advantage of that girl you will reside in a Special place in Hell reserved for Child Molesters and people who talk at the theatre."- Shepard Book
"Wuh- I'm not, Preacher you got a smutty mind"- Malcolm Reynolds
"Perhaps I spoke out of turn"- Shepard Book
"I'm thinking you may have"-Malcolm Reynolds
"I apologise" -Shepard Book
*Mal nods molified*
"A Special Hell" Shepard Book"

Though Harry recognised it was a reference he was annoyed that he didn't get where it came from, which given Firefly can only be watched on the internet or TV, and Harry's field of electronic disruption makes sense. Still I think Harry would enjoy Firefly.

437
DF Spoilers / Re: Good news and Bad news
« on: January 04, 2019, 01:33:10 AM »
Yancy Lazarus is the closest I've come to Dresden.
Theirs also the Hellequin Chronicles

438
DF Spoilers / Re: Gard's Bullets
« on: December 27, 2018, 03:32:01 AM »
Come to think of it why does it necessarily have to be a bullet. What about the Crossbow that killed King Richard the Lionheart.

439
DF Spoilers / Gard's Bullets
« on: December 24, 2018, 09:43:36 AM »
So I just reread Even Hand and Marcone used a bullet that killed Admiral Nelson at Trifalgar, it made me wonder what other bullets Gard could provide Marcone with.

The three that come to mind for me are Abraham Lincoln bullet shot by John Wilkes Booth's Derenger, Archduke Ferdinand at the outbreak of World War 1 and also JFK

Any other that come to mind?

440
DF Spoilers / Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« on: December 18, 2018, 11:37:06 PM »
ah you're correct my mistake

441
DF Spoilers / Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« on: December 18, 2018, 04:50:37 AM »
so two chapters every 10-11 days, roughly 52 chapters in a book. 14 chapters to go. 14x10= 140 or 14x11= 154. say 147 days till the end of the book. assuming writing progress continues at the same rate, book might be finished by mid May next year. Give another 3-6months for editing July at the earliest, September-November more likely.

442
DF Spoilers / Vadderung/Kringle
« on: December 18, 2018, 04:44:54 AM »
So it's been awhile since we've had this discussion so I'm just gonna reboot it a bit, with a slight addition.

Alright first off the evidence, from a variety of WOJ sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZJiv_GT-Jc&t=2409s starts at 15:00 minutes in.

Quote from: JimButcherTysonscorner
"He's already Kringle when Kringles around...When he's acting in his role of Kringle he takes on the Kringle Aspect when he's doing that he's got all the power of a major lord of Faerie but he's also beholden to Mab while it's going on, Mab's no dummy though so she knows not to order him around. But they do talk and have strategy sessions and stuff like that. The Kringle is what Odin does to keep from dying of old age."

Quote from: JimButcher
...Santa Clause, the Winter king who is not the commercial Santa Clause...anta Clause, one of the winter kings, is kinder, the spirit of generosity in a time of bleakness

Quote from: JimButcher
Jim: He is wyldfae.  He isn't a subject of Mab or Titania.  That's what Wyldfae means.  But his origins are in the Summer-side of the cycle of seasons, just like Titania's are.
Ditto Santa, only in Winter.  :)
(He /is/ beholden to Mother Summer, but basically everyone in Faerie is, so.)
(I mean, that's like saying "you must obey the law of gravity."  Duh.)

Quote from: JimButcher
He /could/. But that isn't the Allfather's style. Odin saw you coming last year, and he made his countermoves to what you're doing right now a week and a half ago. For guys like him, fights are what happen when you /fail/ to win with /real/ power--knowledge and forethought.

Quote from: JimButcher
It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.

Quote from: JimButcher
Is Kringle Fae?
His mantle, yes, is part of the Winter Court. Which does not necessarily mean that he himself is Fae as much as the fact that his mantle is. While he’s there, he’s got to pay deference to Mab. If Mab gives him a command, he has to obey it.

Quote from: JimButcher
2015 AMA
Vadderung is Santa Claus, is he also St Nicholas?
And Father Christmas and Sinterklaas and a variety of others. But in our modern era, a lot of people wear multiple hats on the job.

Quote from: JimButcher
If you’re (a powerful immortal being) in the real world, well, the problem is that you’re in the world, and you’re kind of mortal, and something could come along and try and whack you, if they’re fast enough, or good enough, or lucky enough. Which makes Odin a kind of special guy, because he doesn’t mind it, he thinks it’s awesome.

Okay so first the two Bold bits. These Confirm that Vadderung is Mortal or atleast partially Mortal enough to have to worry about aging and getting whacked. It also gives us a solid reason as to why Vadderung became or took up a Faerie Mantle to help combat his aging.

Combine this with Vadderung's Eye and the two theories that.
a) Vadderung took over the Odin Mantle at some point, due to taking up the title Vadder-ung. i.e. Younger Father
b) That Vadderung used to be the Gatekeeper.

My theory is this. That Vadderung was once a Powerful Wizard who through taking up atleast two mantles that of Odin, and Kringle expanded both his power and his lifespan.

The limits/exchange of this being that he has to pay service to Mab, with whom he has a working relationship and knows her well enough to comment on and give Dresden advice about her.

Quote from: Cold Dayspage505
Never let her make you cringe--but never challenge her pride wizard. I don't know exactly what passed between you two, but I suspect that if it had been witnessed by another, she would break you to pieces. I've seen it before. Terrible pride in that creature. She'll never bend


We get a direct example of how the relationship and service to Mab works in Skin Game.

Quote from: Skin Game page 371
"The Winter Knight called for me in his official capacity as an agent of the Winter Court. Mab has the right to summon Kringle. If she'd called for Vadderung, I'd have told her to get in line

Quote from: Skin Game page 372
Legally speaking Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body

Quote from: Skin Game page 372
"Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom one does not get along with famously well. It can be tedious but is generally less trouble than a duel would be.

So Vadderung is a significant enough entity in his own right to tell Mab to buzz off, but they have created a way for them to work together on cordial terms.

Legally Vadderung and Kringle are to seperate entities, personalities, identities and mantles, with different responsibilities, status and roles.

Finally in addition to the knowledge that Vadderung can tell of Queen Mab ruler of the Winter Court, we get the slight tidbit, that Vadderung/Kringle does not or has not always gotten along with Mab. To the point that theirs potential for a duel between them if they did have these little games of protocol.

My theory is that Vadderung puts up with these games of protocol and of the Kringle Mantle so that he doesn't age despite his apparent mortality.

So thoughts?

443
Cinder Spires Spoilers / Other Steampunk books worth reading?
« on: December 13, 2018, 11:57:15 AM »
Any recommendations for other steampunk books and series?

Me personally I can recommend Tales of the Ketty Jay and Mortal Engines.

444
DF Spoilers / Re: Rashid the Gatekeeper, Intellectus, Foresight.
« on: November 05, 2018, 12:29:35 AM »
If Rashid does have an Intellectus/Forsight/Bond with the Outer Gates Genius Loci. It would make sense as to his poisiton as Gatekeeper as well as how he is able to appear at just the right moments.

445
DF Spoilers / Re: Vadderung former Gatekeeper.
« on: November 05, 2018, 12:27:32 AM »
I don't think Cowl is one Kemmlers apprentices he outright says he has nothing but disdain for the madman Kemmler and his disciples. Harry also says his magic feels different from the others.

Regardless, I think Vadderung maintained the Outer Gates while The original Merlin maintained Demonreach.

446
DF Spoilers / Proven Guilty Molly
« on: November 04, 2018, 07:25:58 AM »
Just rereading Proven Guilty I had a crazy thought. What if Winter Lady Molly was/is the one that sent the fetches?

It's generally agreed that some time travel stuff is affected in Proven Guilty, so what if she's the one that sends fetches after her previous self.

Just a thought I thought worth sharing.

447
DF Spoilers / Re: Vadderung former Gatekeeper.
« on: November 04, 2018, 04:14:19 AM »
Ebenezar outright says it after the battle of Chitchen Itza
Quote from: Changes;Page 426
Ebenezar nodded "He taught Merlin you know. The original Merlin

448
DFRPG / Re: Request A Character
« on: November 01, 2018, 06:16:25 AM »
I love It! Thanks Sanctaphrax.

449
DF Spoilers / Re: Vadderung former Gatekeeper.
« on: November 01, 2018, 05:07:25 AM »


A while back there was a few theories on the former Guardians of the Outer Gates. I think the prevailing theory was that Angels were the original Guardians and then it was a few other mythologies (including the Greco-Roman) and then the Norse.


Agreed

There were excellent arguments both ways - not helped by more than a few contradictions in the text and WOJ. For instance Jim discusses how the Courts were split on purpose and that the Fae were the creation of beings who were losing influence in the world. This would tend to support the idea that there was no split until the Fae.


But there is also in the text how some Fae like the Leanansidhe discuss the how the Formor are cousins of the Jotun. And how the Formor are related to the Fae. Which would tend to suggest that the Jotuns were not Outsiders. Unless you go in for my theory that the Formor have the blood of the outsiders in them, hence being cousins of the Jotun.

But there are further ideas that Mab, Mother Winter and the Winter Court have strong similarities to the Jotuns. It is a complex topic. I do suspect in one form or another something akin to the Mother's has always existed to defend reality (a la the Fates/Norns etc.) But what beings were from them is very very difficult to guess.

My theory is that most nature Gods, Deities. Powerful Spirits and Creatures became Fae in order to survive. While the defeated Pantheons of several religions banded together to create the Fomor. WHich is backed up by Lea's description and explanation of them, as well as Bob's

I personally am of the opinion that Odin was a mortal wizard who completed a rite of ascension to become a God. But after a while he realised he had to forfeit some of his power to maintain his influence in the world - which likely corresponds to waning of the Norse gods influence and the retreat of the Jotuns and the Norse Gods losing their way. I suspect he had the option to bow out of mortal affairs but chose not to.


A hundred percent agreed, I too have the theory that Vadderung used to be a Wizard that ascended, which actually fits with a lot of Viking Lore. Viking's believed Odin traveled aorund the world as a wizened old user of witchcraft and magic.

Although theirs also the theory that he is actually, Thor upgraded which is supported by his name Being Donar Vadderung or Thunder Younger Father

Vadderung is a very interesting character. We have never actually confirmed him as Odin, though it is heavily implied and guessed at by Harry. We know he taught the original Merlin - which means he likely influenced the formation of the White Council. We know he has had many identities over the centuries, and he is going by Vadderung this time. And when he gets involved, he goes all in, but that normally means things are about to get really bad. We know he is stockpiling for the apocalypse/Ragnarok and that his children have gone astray. We also know that there is an implied fued between Mab and him and that he wears his Kringle mask in order to keep the peace. We also know that Mab assumed her duties in 1066 - the year of the last great Viking raid, commonly thought of the year the Viking age came to an end. We also know during that time a Starborn was running around, the old Mother Summer died or abdicated, the old Summer Queen took her place, the Summer Lady stepped up to being Summer Queen, and the Winter Queen died, causing Mab to step up. It is speculated this could also have been when the Courts were split. An interesting time for Vadderung. We also know that Uriel considers Vadderung to be in a similar line of work - which is interesting for two reasons. Uriel both preserves and nurtures freedom of choice, we also know that he is Heaven's wetworks man and chief spook. So which field is Vadderung in? My money is on both - especially considering more than once we have had significance around assassins and spooks. So I wonder what Vadderung does in that area? We definitely know he is the protecting freedom game. And of course he is a psychopomp - he guides the souls of the dead to the afterlife. I think a lot of reveals about Vadderung will open up the world of the Dresden Files in a big way.

My theory is Vadderung takes more direct action than Uriel and provides direct muscle and advice for the fight, while Uriel is restricted and bound to act as a balance to whatever evil does. Vadderung has more freedom to act because he's Mortal, and finds the idea of it awesome as per WOJ.

450
DF Spoilers / Rashid the Gatekeeper, Intellectus, Foresight.
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:18:37 AM »
Given his position and mantle, I think the Gatekeeper has what Harry has on Deamonreach, only with the Outer Gates. It makes sense as a requirement of being Gatekeeper that his sanctum is the Outer Gates, it would be a huge advantage when directing Winter's forces against the Outsiders.

Their's also the fact that Rashid has experience with Intellectus with his experience with Demonreach, here's everything we know of Rashid and Demonreach and his experience with Intellectus.

Quote from: Turn Coat: Chapter 39
"I know a Way. I've been here before."....
"Demonreach" the Gatekeeper mused. "It's...certainly fitting."
"The ley line you speak of does not go through the island" he said. "This is where it wells up. The island is its source."
Quote

Now theirs also the fact that Gatekeeper has some ability to see into the future or send messages from the future. As confirmed by Bob in Proven Guilty in his discussion on time.
Quote from:  Proven Guilty; Chapter Six[/quote
"Oh the Gatekeeper didn't do it to annoy you" Bob said "He did it to prevent any chance of paradox"
...
"He got this form hindisght, he had to" Bob said
"Hindsight" I murmured. "You mean he went to the future for this?"
"Well" Bob hedged "That would break one of the Laws, so probably not. But he might have sent himself a message from there, or maybe gotten it from some kind of prognosticating Spirit. He might even have developed some ability for that himself. Some wizards do"

 But their is a direct example in Turn Coat.
Quote from: Turn Coat; Chapter 39
Then he did something strange. He exhaled slowly, his living eye closing. The gleaming steel eye tracked back and forth, as if looking at something, though I could only tell it was moving because pf the twitches of his other eyelid. A moment later, the Gatekeeper opened his eye and said. "The chances that you'll survive it are minimal".

Then the fact that Harry is on the island changes things
Quote from: Turn Coat; Chapter 39
He frowned at me and then repeated the little ritual. Then he made a choking sound. "Blood of the Prophet. he swore, opening his eyes to stare at me. "You... You've claimed this place as a sanctum"
....
The Gatekeeper shook his head slowly. "Harry" he said, his voice weary. "Harry you don't know what you've done"
Quote

Quote from: Turn Coat; Chapter Forty Six
"Messenger arrived from Rashid," Ebenezar said. He's more familiar with what you can do with what you can do with that kind of bond.

Clearly Gatekeeper knows what Demonreach is for which given his position as Gatekeeper and the following information makes sense. Both Demonreach and the Outer Gates were designed to combat Outsiders, Dark Gods, Powerful spirits e.t.c. The fact that he's familiar with the bond is all but confirmation that Gatekeeper has his own bond with the Gates.

Quote from: Turn Coat:Chapter 39

"First" he said "do not tap into the power of this place's well. You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."
....
"I cannot set foot on the island" he said
"Why not?"
"Because this place holds a grudge" he said

Now we have this WOJ partially explaining/hinting at the cause of that grudge.

Quote from: Word of Jim
Also, people have a few things wrong about the Gatekeeper and the island.  The Gatekeeper did not hurt Demonreach.  Gatekeeper has been on the island a couple of times, and it’s never gone well, but he didn’t cause Demonreach’s limp.  That’s the work of the glacier that carved out Lake Michigan.
....
Sarks: What did the Gatekeeper do to Demonreach to make it hold a grudge?
Jim: 2) He focused the tank. Oh, wait, no, it's a little more complicated than just a positive-negative situation, and while I don't go into the specifics, yet, you get all the pieces you need in Cold Days.

Which brings us to Cold Days.
Now first their is a description of what limits the Gatekeepers, Foresight/Hindsight in Proven Guilty thats relevant.
Quote from:  Proven Guilty; Chapter Six
"Because if he significantly altered what happened with his knowledge of the future it could cause all sorts of temporal instabilities. It could cause new parallel realities to split off from the point of alterations he couldn't predict or kind of backlash into his consciousness and drive him insane"
....
"But if your car never got stolen" Bob said "then how did he come to know to come back and warn you?"
I frowned
"That's paradox and it can have all kinds of nasty backlash. Theory hold that it could even destroy our reality if it happened in a weak enough spot."
.....
"If it's done subtly enough, indirectly enough you can get all kinds of things changed. Like for example, he tells you that your car is going to be stolen. So you move it to a parking garage, where instead of getting stolen by the junkie who was going to shoot you and tale the car on the street, you get jacked by a professional who takes the car without hurting you- because by slightly altering the fate of the car, he indirectly alters yours"

Okay Cold Days.
Quote from: Cold Days; Chapter 33
He leaned over to scan each of the fallen closely, nodding at the medics after each.
....
The other eye had been replaced with the crystalline material that was identical to that which had been used to create the gates and the walls around them.
....
"But they need a good eye here to be sure that the things that must remain outside do not slip in unnoticed"
....
"Oh" he said waving a hand "You've danced about in the shadows at the edge of life now young man. That's no small thing, to go into those shadows and come back again----You've no idea the kind of attention you've attracted"
....
I nodded thinking. "okay" I said. "First how do you know if the adversary has... infected someone?"
"Experience" he said. "Decades of it. The Sight can help but.." Rashid hesitated
.....
'I don't recommend making a regular practice out of it" he continued "It's an art not a skill and it takes time. Time or a bit of questionable attention from the Fates and a ridiculously enourmous tool" He tapped finger against his false eye.
....
"Hells bells. The gates, they're, some kind of spiritual CAT scanner"
"Among many other things" he said "But it's one of their functions yes. Mostly it means that the adversary cannot use such tactics effectively here. As long as the Gatekeeper is vigilant it rarely tries"

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