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Messages - crusher_bob

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376
DFRPG / Re: The Beauty of Stealth - Ambushing
« on: May 16, 2010, 05:09:44 AM »
Quick question. If you set up a special type of spell with thaumaturgy(not saying all or even many of the violent spells would fit into this) that attacked the target with like a car or something via a really bad luck spell (like the evil eye curse in blood rights) would they get to defend if they didnt know it was coming? This could be totally redundent i'm just curious.

I'd guess it depends on exactly how you are going about it.

Example 1 (Like big hammer killing curse in Blood Rites?)
You want to cast a killing curse (big hammer version) at the guy, and the immediate effect will be "he's run over by a car".  Then the guy gets to resist with Discipline, just like any other hostile thaumaturgy effect.


Example 2 (Like Barabbas curse?)
You've already hit the guy with the killing curse (big hammer version) and now, hours later, it's actually getting around to killing him.  Probably not, the guy had a chance to resist the curse when you laid it on him, and you've already gotten enough shifts to kill him, so the car is just the game world catching up with the game system.

Example 3:
You've hit the guy with the curse (small hammer version), enough to give negative aspect(s) but not enough to qualify as fully fatal.  Then the car trying to run him over is handled as a compel on an aspect.  In this case yes, he can refuse the compel, or maybe just dodge the car after having been surprised by it, or something.

Example 4 (Like various magical mind bombs in Turn Coat)
You aren't targeting the guy you want run over, you are targeting the guy driving the car.  You mind control the guy driving to try to run over the guy you want run over.  Then it should be handled as an ambush by the guy driving, with the potential road pizza getting an alertness roll.

377
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 14, 2010, 10:18:54 AM »
Because it will cause limits at the levels that most people will play the game.

378
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 14, 2010, 09:55:12 AM »
Ah, so with Diciple 5 and an +1 Focus for Controll you can still safely do Rituals for weeks?
Is that your indent?

Note that you'd need control +1 for every aspect of thaumaturgy that you wanted to do.  Also, having 6 control lets you safely summon 2 power a pass, so your rituals can go twice as fast.  The endurance limit can also be gotten around that way.

379
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 14, 2010, 09:25:06 AM »

Isnt that a normal rule?
Or do you mean by "in the head" like [...]
The rules imply it, I just went ahead and made it explicit.  Harry does something similar in, erm, White Night I think, when using a spell to contact Elaine.  It's also why I throw in the comment about not being able to drive while doing that...

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I like the 5 minutes of preparations HR.So you would need an Workspace 3 to use +2 skills.
The stuff about workspace is mostly there to make the High Quality Workspace stunt explicitly worth something.

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Question: Do failed declarations carry an penalty besides lost time?
No. 

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That I dont like. Anther needed skill for Wizards? (Discipline, Lore, Conviction, Resources, Endurance)
That rule is there for a few different reasons.
1
To help keep a cap on guys who want to do huge thaumaturgy when they have several days to do nothing.

2
To make the various shortcuts to power slightly more attractive.  If there's no real cap on how long you can do the ritual, you can just sit down and do a power 40 ritual 'safely'.  And note that being restricted is only worth a -1.  So guys like Harry with a higher endurance than discipline can do rituals for as long as they want to, really.

3
To prevent the PC from just doing the, "well I have discipline 5" so can just draw one power an exchange for the whole thing...

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Not shure I like the 5 Minutes per exchange rule. (But I like it better than speed of plot or how can I fasttalk the GM into as little time as possible.)
When first writing, I hadn't intended it to be a literal five minutes per pass.  For example, if the PC pulls of some shenanigans to do the whole ritual in one pass, then you can just declare that it took "exactly 2 minutes and 47 seconds" or something.  But when you want to know about how long the whole multipass ritual took, saying that each power draw takes "a few minutes" would only confuse matters.

380
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 14, 2010, 09:04:55 AM »
I was under the impression, that an exchange would be a round (in D&D Terms), and the whole combat would be the scene.
Yes, I was just explicitly pointing out that the block works against multiple attacks, rather than stopping just one.  In theory, it can block every attack you take that round.

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Cant tag the aspect a second time.
Two goons, each with Lying in Wait they each tag their own aspect once.

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Not shure about this, if the Block gets canceled out, does it still decrease the attack?
Yes, it just doesn't defend against any following attacks.

[EDIT]
heh.

381
DFRPG / Re: Permeable Wards, Rubber bands and Cellphones - What?
« on: May 14, 2010, 07:36:42 AM »
I got the impression that the arrangement at Mac's was mostly to get rid of 'accidental' power summoning.  Remember that there have been plenty of times that Molly has gotten angry of something, and Harry has mentioned dispersing the power she'd called up.  So I'd assume that a lot of the non-wizards who drink at Mac's also do the same thing. 

382
DFRPG / Re: Permeable Wards, Rubber bands and Cellphones - What?
« on: May 14, 2010, 03:47:33 AM »
I think you can do this with a basic magic circle, not even a full ward.  But there are a few problems.

1 wards and magical circles aren't mobile.
2 reaching across the circle (like to answer the phone) would break the circle and spoil the whole effect.

But there are still a couple of ways you can use this.

You could, for example, turn the phone on, set it to speaker mode, make the circle around it, and then try to have a conversation.  Since you don't have to reach across the circle to handle the phone, the circle should remain intact.

You can do the same thing with, say, an ipod and speakers.  Turn on the ipod, set it to shuffle.  Make a magic circle around it to protect it against stray magic, and then just don't reach across the circle.

383
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers and persistence
« on: May 14, 2010, 03:22:30 AM »
The way I'm currently doing evocation based maneuvers is that extra shifts allocated to duration define a number of exchanges where the target is not allowed to attempt a (counter) maneuver to remove the aspect that the (first) maneuver placed on them.

I chose to do it this way because non-spell based maneuvers don't have to have any shifts assigned to duration (expect for the first shift to make them sticky) still last for the whole scene. 

So if I use a mundane maneuver to give you sand in the eyes you could always take an action yourself to clear the aspect.  If I use a maneuver to place magical glop over your eyes and spend 3 shifts for duration, you can't even attempt to remove the aspect until the duration is up, and then you can spend an action to remove the aspect normally, just like you could vs the sand.

384
DFRPG / Re: Spell Design Exercises
« on: May 14, 2010, 12:39:55 AM »
Alan knows he has just a few moments before he will be
running from a demon. A demon which is supernaturally fast...

Alan wants to give himself "Inhuman Speed"
[..]

I'd say that you can't copy another supernatural ability like this whole cloth, that's what stuff like shape changing is costed out to do.  For example, if I want to make a potion that will let me outrun a demon for a while.  If the demon has great (+4) athletics and is supernaturally fast, then it has a base of legendary (+8) when it is sprinting.  So if I wanted to match the demon's running speed, I'd need a power 8 effect.

Just like the might based potions I posted above, I assume that the effect only last as long as a single roll of that skill does, so 'a few moments', if I wan to be able to run this fast for a few minutes, that's +3 up the time chart.  So the base power of the potion would be 11.  If we go with the moderate consequences again, that means you'd need a crafting strength of 7 to make one.

-----

I'll double check my ideas about how to build these sorts of potions vs the write up of the true seeing ointment.
The example ointment give a 6 alertness vs farie glamours.  Since this isn't the full effect of even a small part of the alertness skill (passive awareness), we'll say it only costs around half as much, for a base power of 3.  Which means it would normally last "a few minutes" at power 6.

Sigh, and the version in the book gives +6 to the roll (not replaces it, like mine does) and has a duration of 'a few hours' rather than a few minutes.  Back to the drawing board, I guess.


385
DFRPG / Re: Spell Design Exercises
« on: May 13, 2010, 03:40:11 PM »
First Spell

------------
[...]
Alan decides to put the aspect "Monstrously Strong" on Bobby for a scene.
[...]
This sounds like a maneuver, which would be difficulty 3 against an unresisting target, I think.  It would normally last "a few minutes" (one scene), and any more time you wanted it to last, you'd need to add more shifts for power (see the time chart, YS 315)  So making it last the whole day would require another 6 shifts of power.
You could reduce the complexity by making the potion inflict a consequence when it wore off.  For example, if you wanted it to last all day (normally a power 9 potion, but made is cause a moderate physical consequence when it wore off, then it would only require power 5 to create, since 4 shifts of power would come from the consequence.

And yes, they would only get 1 free tag on the aspect.

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Does the complexity of the spell increase for tougher individuals (the
way it does for spells which are meant to "take out" a la the Heart Exploding Hex from Storm Front)?
Not if the target doesn't resist.

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What are alternative approaches to accomplishing the same goal? Either
math wise, theme wise, or mechanics wise?
We could declare the potion as an effective might maneuver for how much you can lift.  We'll call it power 6.  So instead of using your might, you could just take a 6 whenever it came to lifting stuff.  But that would only last 1 exchange "a few moments' as it's base time.  If we wanted to make it last around an hour, that would be 6 steps up the time chart.  If we go with moderate consequences again, that would make the final potion power 8.

Imho, magical effects should only be able to do one 'part' of a skill at the time.  So, for example, you could make the Might potion that let you lift things, or a Might potion that made you a great wrestler, but not a potion that just made your might skill higher for a while.

386
DFRPG / Re: a few small questions
« on: May 13, 2010, 02:02:20 PM »
Another way to look at it is that shape changing is not a sustained magic.  You change yourself, and then the magic is done.  Unlike something with a form made out of ectoplasm, you really are the thing you have changed into.  So if I shape changed into an orangutan, and then made a flesh mask to look human, and then walked into the water, the flesh mask would be disrupted because it was a purely magical construct made out of ectoplasm.  But as far as the river is concerned, I'm an orangutan and can walk around in it all I want.

387
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:55:48 PM »
Evocation blocks are rolled...but it's purely a control roll, anything in excess of the Power channeled is wasted.

My question was along the lines of this:
Do I roll the dice to modify the power of the block, like if I were defending with athletics?
In the example combat, when Jing-Wei is dodging gunfire fire with lore; she rolls the dice each time there is an attack and modifies her lore each time.
That seems to be the right way to do things, so my question was, do I do the same roll off for evocation defenses?  Or do you not roll the dice for them?

As for the rest, looks like we disagree about rules complexity.

But more generally, are there any places in my house rules that are unclear?  Do there seem to be any way to exploit them?  Is there anything in them that seems to
contradict the fluff?

For example, can the Merlin still stop the Red court with a ward, while combat goes on?
Using your writeup, the Merlin has a base complexity for wards of 18, and a base control of 11 (and an base ritual power of 7).  If we assume that a complexity 18 ward is enough, he can move on to the ritual right away.  With 5 minutes of prep, he could in theory make 8 declarations, which should give him plenty more power if he wants it.

But what about getting the ritual done in a speedy manner?  Assuming none of the senior council are helping him with the ritual, he can safely throw up a complexity 18 ward by himself in about 15 minutes.  But the book says that the Gatekeeper was there to help.  Assuming the Gatekeeper can safely call up around 5 power an exchange for wards, that would cut their safe time down to around 10 minutes (2 power draws).  But what if they wanted to be unsafe, and call up power closer to their discipline?  Then they can do the whole thing in around 5 minutes.

What if a complexity 18 ward isn't going to be enough?  (And they were as desperate as PCs tend to be?)  They could take 5 minutes of prep and get another 12+ complexity, especially with the Gatekeeper to contribute (they can each trivially generate 3 successful declarations).  But how long will it take them to throw up?  We'll say they each have 3 fate points to spend here, that means the Merlin could call up around 15 power and the gatekeeper maybe 10 in the first ritual pass.  Then they can safely complete the ward in the next pass.  If they are truly PC level desperate (and have plenty of fate points), they might be able to do the whole thing in one pass, after taking a plenty of consequences for drawing that much power in one pass.
So, if they are really desperate, the Merlin and the Gatekeeper can do a force 30 or so ward in around 10 minutes.

That's close enough to the time a large combat might be going on in the background for me.

What about the thing Harry does with the ghosts in Grave Peril?  The book lists it as complexity 5.  Harry has a good lore at this point, so he can either accept a minor consequence or invoke an aspect to be able to move directly into the ritual, and he can do it in one pass.  So he can have it done in 'around 5 minutes'.  Since the vampires had fallen back from the battle for a moment, that's good enough for me.


388
DFRPG / Re: Sample conflicts
« on: May 13, 2010, 12:25:38 PM »
Are evocation blocks not rolled too, like the blocks from enchanted items?

Is the sample compel in the social conflict appropriate, or should it have required not interrogating the goons at all?

Reasons of why I wrote the extensive stuff on declarations:
There have already been plenty of questions posted here:
Can you make multiple declarations with one skill?
Can you make declarations with any skill?
etc.

I wanted to head all those questions off; here's explicitly how to make declarations. 
Next, why aren't all declarations 'equal'?  If I have superb resources and got the workspace stunt, what does having a superb workspace allow me to do that my resources didn't let me do already?  If I can make as may declarations with one skill as I want, why can't I make all my declarations with my best skill.  Sire, the other players will probably throw dice at me if I whip out the thesaurus and try to make 15 lore declarations, but how many are acceptable?  And would they still throw dice if I tried to make 5 Lore, 5 resources, and 5 workspace declarations?  Or is it the fact that I'm making 15 declarations the reason they are throwing dice at me?

And then, while reading the 'how to summon a demon thread', the assumption was that you would always take the safe way out, and only summon control -4 power.  Sure, this might take 20 or 30 exchanges, but how long does that take anyway?  And why would I want to rush things? 

So I wrote something that answered all those questions too.
I figured that almost all of the time, time for thaumaturgy would be limited by time in the game world.  You have to have the binding circle complete before the moon comes up, you have to find your buddy before the sun rises, stuff like that.   

If you want to allow the PCs to do some thaumaturgy while someone is breaking down the door, then they can try completing the ritual in one pass by calling a whole lot of power invoking aspects to control it.  And you can say the the 'about five minute' ritual they do is quick enough that they get it done before the door is broken down.

The rules already explicitly cover stuff like exactly how many evocations I can throw, by tracking my stress meter.  If the rules were going to be that light, they could just say you could only throw 'a few' evocations before you got too tired.

389
DFRPG / Re: Blocks instead of defense rolls
« on: May 13, 2010, 08:34:12 AM »
Could the times that Harry says "there wasn't time to get the shield up" be justified in game as people ambushing him?  There are plenty of times that Harry is able to call up the shield to deflect something that would normally have initiative on him.

390
DFRPG / Sample conflicts
« on: May 13, 2010, 08:10:48 AM »
Have written up a sample physical and sample social conflict.  Can someone please take a look and see if I missed anything important.

Physical Conflict
Social Conflict

and for bonus points

House rules for thaumaturgy declarations, and example thaumaturgy ritual

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