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Messages - cold_breaker

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31
DFRPG / Re: Consequences per Exchange
« on: July 10, 2013, 12:47:13 PM »
It also makes sense narratively for DF as opposed to a middle age style game where combats are typically more drawn out and long term.DF combats tend to be pretty short, quick and brutal.

32
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 08:22:41 PM »
I don't think actually compelling is always necessary. Certain aspects demand certain types of actions, even without a compel. If you are "on fire", you are burning, your immediate reaction should be to do something about it. If you are on the floor, you need to get up before you can do any running around.
That's not the same as being compelled to do something. It's just a logical conclusion of the story. You just can't do everything from any position you are in.

However, if that maneuver forces you down a specific way, and that's to your detriment, that's a compel.

I see where your going, but I have to disagree with you somewhat. I think 'on fire' is a weird case where the compel would be to put out the fire or take an X stress hit, and then only if putting out the fire would be to the players detriment - like in the middle of a fight. You're right though, like any compel, there's only a fate point if it provides a clear disadvantage to the player.

As for how much effort it is to remove an aspect created by a maneuver - I think I disagree. After all, on the other side of the equation, there are maneuvers that are a heck of a lot easier to accomplish than to remove - locking someone in handcuffs perhaps? pushing them into a pit? Splashing red paint on someone?

33
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 07:45:59 PM »
The way I would resolve it is paying off the compel means he can attack--but the effort he's making to attack while prone/getting up is still represented by the aspect, and can be compelled still.

So in this example, he's prone, buys off the compel to attack, but on his opponent's round, he can still invoke the aspect to say something like, "Okay, while he's busy fancy spinning and all, he's not able to put as much effort into dodging, so I'm getting a +2 to shoot his ass."

But after that, he's up and the aspect is gone. Unless you say that the aspect remains since everyones actions are technically simultaneous. Makes sense realistically, but it's a headache narratively.

Am I right to assume though that in this case we're getting away from hard and fast rules, and headed into GM discretion land? As in, it's up to the GMs discretion as to how much effort is required to remove an aspect? Some might not require any action while others could require progressively more? ('dizzy' or 'off balance' might go away naturally after around, 'knocked prone' would require a supplemental action that could even happen before your main action and would technically require a basic athletics roll to accomplish, and something like 'pinned to the wall with a dagger' might require a primary action?)

34
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 07:19:30 PM »
I'm a bit more of a hard-ass for aspects

Maybe you paid off the compel, but you still haven't removed the aspect.  If you pay off the compel and still don't try to remove the aspect, you are still subject to future compels, depending on the situation. 

It makes maneuvers actually have weight and encourages players (and npc's) to try to remove the aspect.

OK, my gut feeling is that this wouldn't actually be buying off the compel - just a supplemental action. In other words, you attack and get up in the same round. You technically take a -1 to the roll to get up, but whether you actually roll is questionable anyways. Normally I'd say a roll to get up is a -1 or -2, but if you're surrounded by sword weilding maniacs, I might raise the difficulty and force you to roll for it. If you manage the get up roll, it's assumed you succeed and avoid the compel completely. If you fail, you don't and must either change your attack to something the compel would allow or buy off the compel and attack anyways.

I guess the nature of the compel is up to the GM. It could be 'take no offensive actions' or 'you can't do anything combat wise' - as opposed to the aspect which is fixed.

35
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 06:38:21 PM »
that would be paying off the compel

GM:  you're prone, so you can't effectively attack.  I compel you to only do a defensive maneuver

PC:  I'm a martial artist so I'm paying off that compel.  Instead, I do a break-dance move and trip the guy so that he's on the ground too.  I'm going to try to grapple him in the next exchange...

So, you effectively have three options.

A) Get up, avoiding any compel and eliminating the aspect
B) Submit to the compel, gaining a fate point but being restricted in what you can do by the aspect.
C) Pay off the compel, losing a fate point but effectively ignoring the aspect and removing it from future rounds?

36
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 06:26:31 PM »
Drawing a sword is not an action in the sense of fate. It can be an action, if you draw it, for example, to intimidate someone. In that case, it would be a maneuver to tag on a subsequent intimidation attempt.

But you don't have to do an action to draw your sword. Unless it has an impact on the story. So if there is a signature move you draw your sword with, that is part of your fighting style, you can absolutely do that as an action. Otherwise, you can just attack with your sword from the sheath. But you won't get a bonus from drawing then, either.

Yeah, but you're skirting the actual question. Lets say someone is knocked prone. They decide their an accomplished martial-artist, so they don't want to just get up, they should do it in such a way as it gives them some sort of advantage. So, they pull a breakdance-esque move to bicyclekick in the air in order to force people to dodge and be off balance while they get back up. Would you allow it? Obviously you'd set the difficulty a little higher - or else designate 'getting up' to be a secondary action, but would you allow it, or would you force the player to only get up as the action? Would this be dependent on the situation as well - aka are some maneuvers narratively better than others?

37
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 05:49:36 PM »
ok, sadly this became a learning example for me as well.

So, essentially, when you maneuver, you are placing an aspect on the scene. The player gets one free tag, but otherwise it is still an aspect until it is removed. Aspects are easy to remove generally - they just require an action. They can be compelled by the GM for additional effect by anyone (The GM, other players paying an fate point to use it to their advantage, etc.) as long as it makes sense to compel it. So, in the example of 'Prone' - you could be blocked from doing any action that wouldn't make sense while prone, but could conceivably still do actions that wouldn't be blocked by being prone. Saying an action is blocked by being prone is essentially compelling that aspect - meaning you get a fate point by not removing the aspect and standing up each round so long as the aspect was sufficiently hurting the player.

I'd probably reword my above statement if someone really rolled well on a maneuver.

Would you ever allow removing an aspect to be part of a secondary action or another action? I'm thinking in the vain of drawing a samarai sword and attacking with it at the same time. Or a smart player being knocked prone, then maneuvering to get up in a flanking position.

38
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 03:34:19 PM »
Nope. It can also be invoked or compelled even after it's tagged.

Alright then, when does 'prone' go away?

 For reference, I'm saying it's not a very good example of a maneuver. I'd probably require an attack roll to knock someone prone and build it up as a block against athletics. It borders too much on consequence territory, albiet a short lived one.

EDIT: I'm realizing I sound hostile. My apologies. I think I'm getting a little carried away here - if I'm wrong, I want to know why.

That said, you're basically making the maneuver action act as both a block and a maneuver in this instance, which seems game breaking to me.

39
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 03:11:55 PM »
Erm, might want to reread yourself. He's asking if there are any other effects of the maneuver other than being able to tag it once. You just listed the way he /could/ tag it... which to be fair, is narratively driven by the effects of the aspect.

The answer is that you don't get any extra advantage from a maneuver other than one free tag. That tag can be used for things other than to assist a roll perhaps, but it's still one free tag and that's it.

40
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 02:58:45 PM »
I have to protest. The names of aspects are definitely not just fluff. If you hit someone to make him lie prone, he is lying on the ground with everything that entails. If you want to keep him down, then you'd do a block. Or maybe even a grapple. But if the other guy is "prone" and wants to run away, I would first make him get up again. There is not much sense to let someone run if he is lying on the ground, after all.

A maneuver is not just a mechanical way to introduce an advantage for yourself or a disadvantage for someone else, it changes something about the scene, it introduces a new fact. A character is lying on the ground, the curtain is catching fire, you move a chair between yourself and your opponent, and so on. The fact should be regarded as being true, not just as being there.

I said 'mostly' - but again, look at the rest of the explanation.

To put this in other terms - prone is not a maneuver. Prone is a state of being. It might be the RESULT of a maneuver, but in of itself it is not a maneuver. A good rule of thumb is if it would stop you from doing something it's a block. If it just gives other people an advantage over you (such as bad footing, being flanked, etc.) then it's a maneuver.

AKA, if the implications of the situation are anything other than fluff, it's not a maneuver.

41
DFRPG / Re: Maneuvers
« on: July 09, 2013, 02:35:17 PM »
Generally no. The name of the maneuver is mostly just fluff. I'd generally not call prone a maneuver, as it implies a state or disadvantage as opposed to an advantage. Flanking, good footing, high ground are all examples of preferred maneuvers.

I usually make disadvantages blocks - something that keeps you from doing something. 'Knocked prone' might be a good example of a short term Athletics block.

42
DFRPG / Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« on: July 09, 2013, 02:30:07 PM »
If a player refuses a Compel, you should either escalate or move on.  You should not simply present the same Compel again and again until they run out of the means (or the will) to refuse.  That's what's called by the technical term 'a dick move'.

Well, depends on how you go about doing it. The trick is to remember that if they bought off a compel, that's worth something. Give them their fate points value.

Now, on the other hand, if you start throwing a daily compel at a character (as in, actively reduce his refreshed pool of faint points by one unless he complies) - it's not such a big deal. I would highly reccomend coming up with new and interesting compels as much as possible, but nothing simulates being naggingly and constantly drawn to a task like it predictably trying to get you to do something on a regular basis.

43
DFRPG / Re: Mechanic Idea: Equipment
« on: July 08, 2013, 01:39:01 PM »
Not going to lie, this seems more confusing and complicated then balancing.

Rather than "EP" - I think you should start looking closer at the use of the resource skill. Off the top of my head, I'd say anyone who wants to run around with a weapon 2 and armor 2 better have resources 4 - I'd probably allow them to have multiple weapons: 1 items for that as well and even lend them out, but an armory of useful weapons are going to get expensive fast.

If balance is still an issue, you could also say that projectiles aren't super effective: perhaps it's a common tactic in the supernatural world and there are many supernatural ways to defend against it: charms and the like. Even in the books, Dresden isn't super afraid of bullets - except perhaps sniper rounds.

44
I don't know, this has given me a lot to think about. I'm still not convinced that its always in the best interest of gameplay to always tell players all this matagame info - even if you can trust the players not to metagame, people make honest mistakes. I lean towards getting a package of sticky notes aswell to be honest.

On the other hand, I admit it might not be good for the system, so perhaps I need to find a different way of keeping my stories interesting. Perhaps I'll try giving them as much metagame info as possible and just mix together 2 plots to see if the story develops organically - e.g. if they catch bad guy #1 really quickly and easily, bad guy #2 will screw them over because they didn't stop to kill him earlier.

Either way, it's a lot to think about.

45
I think we need a new variant of Godwin's Law for RPG discussions.

Because I've seen this video game comparison a whole lot of times, and it never really makes sense.

Hehe. Sorry. Personally I cant help comparing this to playing Warcraft as a kid and using cheat codes - sure, it was fun for a bit... but it was a whole lot more fun when you had to actually work to achieve something, and there was a very real chance of screwing it up. Not sure if it makes sense to you, but to me its a worst case scenario. I think I used Fallout because it's more similar and shows how quickly people game the system even when playing by the rules.

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